How hardy is pakistan mulberry?

[npolaske]

I posted this over at the growingfruit.org forum, but wanted to expand the conversation over here.

I want to grow a Pakistan and King White Pakistan (aka Shatoot) mulberry, both Morus macroura. You can check out descriptions over at the JFE website:

http://www.justfruitsandexotics.com/JFE/product-category/fruit-trees/mulberry/

I am in zone 8b, with many winter nights below freezing most winters never seeing lows below 22F. However, over the last 10 years we have gotten down to 15F for a few hours one night, and then 18F another night.

My concern is that there is so much conflicting information on the cold hardiness of this species of mulberry. Some claim it is hardy to zone 6, while other (including JFE) claim zone 9! I think much of this confusion comes from the fact that many online nurseries seem to think Pakistan is Morus alba (typical hardy mulberry found in the midwest) and simply apply the same hardiness (~zone 6) to all albas.

Does anyone have personal experience growing Pakistan or King White Pakistan (Shatoot) in zone 8?

[drew51]

JFE is super bad with zones. They are incorrect on many fruits they list. I have grown Sweetcrsp blueberry here in zone 5b for 4 years, in a pot yet, so you should lower zones by two, if in a pot, and last year the low was -16F. They have it listed to zone 9a. I would completely ignore zone ratings on JFE. On growing Fruit Brady in your zone is growing it, as he mentioned. He is a really good gardener, and is very generous too, a great guy for sure. I trust whatever he says. He says he has no issues with Pakistan. He posted fruit photos of it before too. I would try it, at least the Pakistan.

I also have JF&E Black Madria Not fig tree, and it too does fine with protection in the garage (lows about 25F).

[drew51]

I live in the northeast Detroit Suburb of Sterling Heights. An air layer would be fantastic. It's experimental here, so i really don't want to go overboard on this one. It probably will not work here, but I have always been a zone buster! I can air layer something for you too, if needed.

On Sweetcrisp, well my plant is 4 years old, but it is not ideal here. I have yet to have any fruit. The last two years it had severe die-back of all buds as both years it came out of dormancy early. A problem here with low chill plants in this very high chill area. This year I'm leaving it outside on my porch with overhead protection. No protection from temps, in the garage in March it becomes really warm. It came out of dormancy early. I'm hoping keeping it directly outside will resolve this issue. So I'm still trying to grow it here, it is going on 4th leaf, and I hope I can keep the buds alive this time. It's actually small this year as the main cane died, yet the plant did not. Almost like a 2nd leaf again. So yeah Zone 5b is probably too much for it, but zone 9a is way too high a zone. It should thrive in zone 7.

Also a note to Npolaske. I may try Pakistan too, not for a few years though. I'm Drew51 btw. Hey thanks much for the offer After the holidays I will send you a list of what I have, and maybe we can trade.
I was in Grand Rapids once for a job offer. I do have friends there though, I didn't get the job! It was at St Mary's Hospital.

[npolaske]

It doesn't matter where people like us live... we will try to stretch the zone! I'm plotting a simple way to grow avocado, lychee, and cherimoya.

[SeattleFigs]

all my banana trees died they listed zone 8a im in zone 8b. but it should be correctly listed zone 9. i called told them i suggested them to change on website but still not change. they blame it on previous owner.

[npolaske]

Thanks! I will definitely plan on putting them in this spring.

I see CDD B/N on your wishlist. I can send you an air layer this coming year.

Where in MI are you? Much of my family lives in Grand Rapids.

[growcrazie]

I am in z6 and mine died the first winter, the rootstock is growing well though

[npolaske]

I found a local source that sells 15 gallon Pakistan trees that are 10-12' tall with a 2.5" caliper. I wonder if they are somewhat similar to figs in that they become significantly hardier as they mature? My plan is to get those so even if we get an unlikely deep freeze they will have the best chance possible of survival.

[drew51]

I would get them as they may be produced locally which is always a plus. I heard this story in Utah importing Michigan maples, and they all died, as the ground is so basic it was causing nutritional deficiencies, whereas the local maples of the same species were fine. Obviously a small amount of evolution favoring the trees that survive better in the basic environment. No such pressure on the MI trees, so they could not handle the high pH.

[growcrazie]

I would say with your zone and larger trees you should be ok. Mine went to almost -10 so it didn't have much chance. I did have a Juro persimmon survive that year, it did die back to about 6"

[Pwr_wrx]

Npolaske, any update on how your tree did? I left mine out today as a experiment to see how it does. It got down to 35 this morning. Will be back to 40s and 50s as soon as the sun comes out

[YATAMA]

Have both white and red PAK MB Z8A never any winterdamage . old tree 15 years, new air layers 1 y old, all came through last winter fine leafing out now. Older tree took 3F 2 winter ago for one night fine.

[Newbie2figs]

Whats the difference between White Pakistan and King white Pakistan are they the same?

[npolaske]

I believe there is only one "long" mulberry that is white.

[SeattleFigs]

king white Pakistan King shatoot white Australian Green, Pakistan White, and Saharanpur Local is the same mulberry source from mulberry fb group

[npolaske]

UPDATE: Since I wrote this post, I obtained Pakistan, White Pakistan, and Australian green (another macroura that is green when ripe). This past winter, we hit low 20s for 15-20 nights, several of which happened after all three of these varieties had started to break dormancy. The classic Pakistan showed no damage at all, while white and green lost about half of their growth from the previous season. This doesn't both me at all, since I probably would have pruned around that much anyways.

So far I am pleased with their cold hardiness in zone 8.

[SeattleFigs]

thank you for sharing are you 8a or 8b? i predicted only cold hardy to zone 9.

[chadspur]

UPDATE: Since I wrote this post, I obtained Pakistan, White Pakistan, and Australian green (another macroura that is green when ripe). This past winter, we hit low 20s for 15-20 nights, several of which happened after all three of these varieties had started to break dormancy. The classic Pakistan showed no damage at all, while white and green lost about half of their growth from the previous season. This doesn't both me at all, since I probably would have pruned around that much anyways.

So far I am pleased with their cold hardiness in zone 8.

Just bumping up this old thread for other folks. Zone 8a here(East of Dallas, Texas).

I just put my White Pakistan in the ground. These things get pot bound FAST. I'll just have to see how I can wrap it well enough to protect it through winter. We rarely get down into the teens, but it happens. I wonder if wrapping would also help out with early bud break. I guess I'll find out.

[YATAMA]

Here in Z8a Rooted white Pak last year and planted 2 in ground which grew=8 feet first year and overwintered last year taking 12F in stride and resuming growth this spring and branchig out. I made A/L for a forum member this year which is lookin good and 3.5 ft tall now.I never heard of Green Pakistan! My Black Pakistan is 15 years old and never harmed by winter.

[IrishFigMadness]

How big do Pakistani's get? Can they be pruned to reduce size?

[Lucrative]

Gigantic. Yes. Prune as hard as you like. Look up pollarding. It's a very aggressive form of pruning that a lot of people use for mulberries.

[IrishFigMadness]

Really! I was going to plant one in my polytunnel but the centre height is only 12 feet. I'll have to find another spot. thanks

[SeattleFigs]

white pakistan only cold hardy to zone 9. i asked online nursery. the white persian is more cold hardy, does anyone have ripe fruit photos of white pakistan and white persian to share? thank you!

[BriarPiperTx]

Just bumping up this old thread for other folks. Zone 8a here(East of Dallas, Texas).

I just put my White Pakistan in the ground. These things get pot bound FAST. I'll just have to see how I can wrap it well enough to protect it through winter. We rarely get down into the teens, but it happens. I wonder if wrapping would also help out with early bud break. I guess I'll find out.

It sounds like you're not too far from me. Would you be interested in trading something for some cuttings of your mulberry ? I have Illinois Everbearing and Kokusa but I collected a bunch of mulberry rootstock this year to graft new varieties next spring

[Vmccolm]

I have a two year-old Red Pakistan Mulberry from Stark Bro’s here in Arlington, TX Zone 8a. We just had two cold snaps into the high Teens/low 20s and it is fine. It took damage it’s first year when it started leafing out too early last winter during a warm spell, but came back stronger than ever. It probably does back from 6 feet to 4, and if I wasn’t pruning it to shrub form, it would have reached 12 ft easily this summer.

I am not worried at all about it this year. Can’t speak to the Pakistan White.

Best,

VM

[Pwr_wrx]

Hey VM, I'm not too far from you up here in Prosper/Frisco area. I have red and white Pakistani mulberry along with dwarf everbearing. Currently I'm trying to root kukuso, Shangri la, and world's best. But my goal was to put the Pakistani in the ground. Glad to hear that yours is doing well ! Now I'm more confident about sticking it in the ground. I know exactly where to put it

[TheBigFatFig]

Hey you guys I'm in Dallas too. Wondering if your Pakistan trees fared well through the Uri storm? We saw 2f around here. I hope to know I have 2 different "Pakistan" trees that are small and I have the L.E. Cook variety cuttings on the way.

Jan Doolin in her YouTube says they all taste the same but at least in her area the L.E. cook variety produces more. Hopefully it's at least as Hardy but Starks can be a backup if it comes down to hardiness... if they handle 2f even better!

[gatorguy85]

I have a large Pakistan in a 20 gal pot that I have been waiting to plant till my home is finished being built and a small one I planted in ground last fall and so far no issues. I have a local sharampur white mulberry grafted on wacissa that is in the ground two full seasons now. I will say that if it leafs out early in a warm spell in feb and we get a late frost it could damage the plant, but other than that they are fine when they harden off in the fall going through winter. I’m in zone 8b outside of Jacksonville. This fall my mulberries made a small fall crop and I tasted the first berry off the local sharampur!

[YATAMA]

well my PAK 20 ft tall in Z8a occsaionally has mild frost after leafing a bit It always makes new leaves and shoots and berry structures.maybe a few less but still bears OK. Mine is on edge of my lake that tends to keep immediate temps a bit higher as H2O is a good heat sink. Glad you got good varieties, I consider MB fruit quite healthy , vitamins fiber . no spray whats not to like!

[RMonti]

I have two Pakistan Mulberries from Stark Bro’s that have done well in my zone, 6a.

[Irtaza]

Hi RMonti, wondering how your Pakistan Mulberries are doing, and which ones specifically you purchased from Stark Bro's? I'm also in zone 6a and am slightly hesitant to get them given that other people are mentioning some damage at zone 8, but was super excited to see your post. I'd really appreciate hearing back from you!

[Pwr_wrx]

Hey Irtaza, I was hesitant planting my Pak mulberry in zone 8a lol. Interested to know more about it being planted in 6a and what protection if any is being utilized during frost.

[RMonti]

After a very mild winter we had a late frost that zapped some of the leaves and berries but it looks like it will keep some. I will post a pic as soon as it opens up a bit. It is the Pakistani from Stark.

[Figs]

Hi all: Reading through this thread, I became very interested in growing some of the mulberry varieties mentioned here. Is it easy to grow mulberry from cuttings, like we do for figs? Is there any reliable source to receive cuttings? Thank you-