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  • Persimmon sources...something different?

    I wondered if anyone knows and will share a good source for Asian persimmons? Most nurseries and internet sources only have a relative few varieties, they are good ones but I already have the standards (Fuyu, Hachiya, Tanenashi). I am looking for Giombo and other large fruit bearing Asian persimmons, and the only source I found says they can not ship to my State.

    Is there some nursery that is into Asian persimmons in a big way? If I can not buy one, I guess I will seek out Lotus grafting root stock and maybe someone will have some scion wood available? Suggestions? I am told there are dozens of varieties of persimmons in Asia, we see only a relative few here. I love them and I want to acquire and learn more about them.

    Thank you,
    Vic

  • #2
    Have you tried onegreenworld and raintree nursery?
    Did you enter your data in the Fig ripening Calculator?: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...zD4/edit#gid=0

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    • #3
      I've purchased persimmon trees from edible landscaping and just fruits and exotics and were happy with both.

      http://ediblelandscaping.com/product...ersimmonAsian/
      http://www.justfruitsandexotics.com/...ees/persimmon/

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      • #4
        Just Fruits and Exotics has a good selection. Also check out Burnt Ridge.
        SE PA, Zone 6b Hardy Fig List

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        • #5
          Thank you for the referrals...it looks like ediblelandscaping has the largest selection of retail nurseries that I have located, including the two varieties I wanted most, Giombo and Izu. I have ordered both...I am excited but it will be awhile before they fruit, as they are quite small/young grafts and won't ship for another 6 weeks or so.

          BTW, I really like persimmons, and if someone in the future wants scion wood maybe we can trade some? I will have to investigate the best root stocks, it seems a lot are grafted on to American Persimmons and other folks grow stock from seeds.

          Thank you again, the listed nurseries you came up with look like good ones, and I have orders coming from a couple of the PNW ones.

          Gratefully, Vic

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          • Kelby
            Kelby commented
            Editing a comment
            Generally, West Coast nurseries use D. lotus as a rootstock and East Coast nurseries use D. virginiana. I don't know what would be better in your climate, but hardiness of D. lotus isn't a concern in 8B like it is in my zone 6.

        • #6
          Thank you Kelby, that is good to know. Where would one find Lotus root stock or do I have to grow it myself? I was pretty excited to find a source in Virginia for Giombo persimmon.

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          • YATAMA
            YATAMA commented
            Editing a comment
            you can buy american persimmon seedlinngs bare root about 3 bucks from the amazingly reliable and inexpensive Vernon Barnes mail order nursery Mc Minnville TN, they are small but z graft works fine and one can do budding too. planting your own seeds works but takes forever. Incidentally many nurseries grow asians on american rootstock which generally is fine.However some asians have a virus that does not harm the asian but causes grafts fail on american persimmon rootstiocks I graft asians to american here all the time and usually works fine but have about 10% graft failure rate.

        • #7
          I would suggest grafting ‘extras’. My take rate with persimmons is much lower than other trees. Others have also remarked they’ve had difficulty with persimmon.
          Did you enter your data in the Fig ripening Calculator?: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...zD4/edit#gid=0

          Comment


          • VICtort
            VICtort commented
            Editing a comment
            Good point, and I will. It is my tendency to do everything to excess... I need to locate rootstock/Lotus. I have bought some persimmons, and they tend to be small relative to other fruit trees. The Dave Wilson nursery in Ca. impresses me with real nice trees, and they tend to be larger than most others. Some famous nurseries sell me little tiny whips, but the DWN sell branched and much larger trees, and this includes the persimmons. According to the retail nursery, some folks have trouble establishing persimmons...and some varieties won't be stocked as a result. I have spent a fair amount of $, but in a couple years I should have lots of scion wood for further projects and trades.

          • ramv
            ramv commented
            Editing a comment
            Yes, get the largest trees you can find. I got nice 10-20 gallon DW trees last year and they fruited the first year.
            Meanwhile my 5 gallon trees will probably take several years to get to that size.

        • #8
          Get Saijo if you want an astringent variety. Otherwise fuyu and jiro (different varieties) are excellent for non astringent. You can eat non astringent varieties soft so I don’t see much upside in astringent varieties other than for drying. Saijo is definitely my favorite for taste. I got mine mail order through Trees of Antiquity and was very pleased with roots and quality!

          Also be sure to get varieties without male blossoms or you’ll have seeds in all your fruit!

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          • YATAMA
            YATAMA commented
            Editing a comment
            Superb and well informed advice,Amigo!

          • VICtort
            VICtort commented
            Editing a comment
            The Best One...Saijo, I have had mixed reviews. Does it taste distinctly different than others? I tend to want larger fruit, but will consider if truly special. I think Hachiya is hard to beat when fully ripe, and I am excited to give Giombo a try. There is an uncommon non-astringent variety known as Lindy's Giant, supposedly 5" D. Does anyone have experience that can comment on it? Or is it just another name for the so-called Giant Fuyu? Yes, I avoid a few varieties because of the seed issue. Chocolate, possibly coffee cake, among them, though both have reputation for being wonderful to eat.

            I like Trees of Antiquity also, some of their trees are Dave Wilson nursery sourced I think.

            I will be in contact with Yatama in the future, I wish you best of luck on your persimmon project. They are such wonderful trees, they simply do not get the respect they deserve in the USA. I am told they do get respect in much of Asia. Great information from ramv regarding root stocks, who knew? Vic

          • ramv
            ramv commented
            Editing a comment
            I’ve tasted coffee cake and Chocolate, I think the latter is called Hyakume. Hyakume has a very unique flavor, something spicy. It is nice But I much prefer Hachiya. Saijo is the best in my opinion.
            I got Rojo Brillante this year. It is supposed to quite good too.

        • #9
          I plan to be selling uncommon persimmon trees maybe next year,am grafting up 30 to grow ,they will be containerized. One warning,bare root persimmons are fine IF they will leaf out and grow,often do not, back 8 years ago I spent couple hundred when I had money on bare root asian persimmons from Bay Laurel,Burnt Ridge and one other nursery.:Looked good in package, planted immediately and none leafed out or grew at all, while plums from same nurseries and shipments did fine.Persimmon has taproot that hates being amputated. This is why many nurseries do not guarantee their bareroot persimmons HereI will have IZU,Giomba,Korean,Suruga,Saijo etc. but containerized

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          • #10
            Yatama makes a good point. If buying bare root ensure that the rootstock is D.Lotus.
            D. Virginiana has tap roots but D.Lotus has much more fibrous roots and can stand being bare rooted.

            Of course, Lotus is less cold tolerant than Virginiana but that is not a problem if you are in zone 7 or higher.
            Did you enter your data in the Fig ripening Calculator?: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...zD4/edit#gid=0

            Comment


            • #11
              I grow a pretty good number of persimmon. I have posted a video or two here in the past. For Asian Kaki folks have IDed the online nurserys that cover the largest selection. The Lindy's Giant, you mention is actually an astringent I have a small tree that has not fruited yet, but I have tasted the fruit from one of my trips to JF&E. Hyakume is not the same as either Chocolate or Coffee Cake/Nishimura Wase but is a similar Pollination Variant type. I an hoping to graft Hyakume this year as well as a couple other P.V. types. I have grown some P.V. types in past but not at present location. I am planning on putting these far enough away from my main plantings to avoid seeding them up.
              Phil North Georgia Zone 7 Looking for: Bordissot Negra Rimada, LUV, , Paratjal Rimada, Sangue Dulce, and on and on,

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              • VICtort
                VICtort commented
                Editing a comment
                Strudeldog, I stand corrected, Yes, Lindy's Giant is astringent, and thus must be water balloon soft ripe to be great. Interesting point about large fruit on a thin and slowish growing persimmon branches, I need to consider that. JF&E has it BTW:http://www.justfruitsandexotics.com/Persimmons.htm

            • #12
              Originally posted by strudeldog View Post
              I grow a pretty good number of persimmon. I have posted a video or two here in the past. For Asian Kaki folks have IDed the online nurserys that cover the largest selection. The Lindy's Giant, you mention is actually an astringent I have a small tree that has not fruited yet, but I have tasted the fruit from one of my trips to JF&E. Hyakume is not the same as either Chocolate or Coffee Cake/Nishimura Wase but is a similar Pollination Variant type. I an hoping to graft Hyakume this year as well as a couple other P.V. types. I have grown some P.V. types in past but not at present location. I am planning on putting these far enough away from my main plantings to avoid seeding them up.
              Thanks for the detailed post. I want to ask if I have to plant one persimmon in my zone which is 7A Maryland, which one should I plant ? I am looking sweet and need to ripe in time persimmon.
              Naeem
              Maryland Ellicott City Zone 7A

              Comment


              • strudeldog
                strudeldog commented
                Editing a comment
                1st Decide whether you want an astringent or non-astringent. If astringent I would go with Saiijo It's pretty much the standard other astringent are measured to, an proven pretty hardy as well, and easy to find. Some folks say it's smallish, but it's a nice eating size fruit the size of a good sized plum or bigger, Size is overrated in the fruit world many times, and the size is sometimes is actually a negative with a small branch supporting a heavy load. Breaking of branches is common due to fruit load on Kaki. On non-astringent there are many similar, if only one I might go with Matsumoto Wase Fuyu due to early season and excellent fruit., but honestly I would no do just one, but another later ripening as well probably one of the Jiro sports or Tam Kam. If you don't mind seeds and want a Pollination Variant type really only choice is Chocolate if only a single tree as I think it will pollinate itself but I am not certain of that self pollination as when I grew it I had another with male blooms, and 1 year it was pollinated another year the flesh did not appear pollinated
                Last edited by strudeldog; 01-12-2018, 02:58 PM.

              • Naeem
                Naeem commented
                Editing a comment
                Thanks for your comments. I wish I can plant more but have only one spot to plant it. I just find out difference between astringent and non-astringent so I want astringent. Saiijo does it need pollination. I may be able to plant two if 10 feet distance between two is enough. Seeds does not matter to me. So if I plant two which one be the other or any other one early and one late ripening. I was looking for these information for quite a some time and so glad you grow lot of these.

            • #13
              Saijo does not need pollination. Actually better without pollination so you can avoid seeds.
              Did you enter your data in the Fig ripening Calculator?: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...zD4/edit#gid=0

              Comment


              • #14
                Saijo and most Kaki will set fruit without pollination so one tree is fine. For a generalized statement astringent need to be soft to be sweet if hard it will twist your face in a most uncomfortable sensation. non-astringent can be eaten hard and will be sweet as long somewhat ripe, if you tried one way immature and green likely get some astringency. non-astringent can be eaten soft fully ripe as well. If you put pollination in the mix the PVNA (pollination variant non astringent) types can become sweet and unique tasting on the flesh surrounding the seeds while still firm. If not seeded they remain astringent until soft. One thing to watch out for on P.V. types is they can be partially astringent if not fully seeded as in the next bite could be astringent, It's normally defined by color of flesh If it has not darkened around the outside of fruit further from the seeds it will likely have some astringency
                Phil North Georgia Zone 7 Looking for: Bordissot Negra Rimada, LUV, , Paratjal Rimada, Sangue Dulce, and on and on,

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                • #15
                  If I could only get one persimmon get non astringent for sure. Fuyu or jiro. Heavy bearing and you can eat fresh hard or soft.

                  I can only eat so many soft persimmons as they are so sweet and will give you the poops after too many. They are best for drying in my opinion and make my favorite dried fruit. You can dry fuyu or jiro and eat them hard or soft so they are very flexible in that sense

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