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  • Loquats Trees - Grafting new varieties - video

    I have several loquat trees. I love the tree and the exquisite taste of the fruit and already had lots of good local varieties.

    A few years ago I bought 8 Tanaka and 8 Algerie loquats grafted in quince. Unfortunately the Spanish nursery i bought them from messed up and send me a few Magdal loquats, mixed in, instead of what i requested.
    To be fair i gave these a few production years but this variety isn't as good as the others.

    So, when i could get my hands on a few scions of other recognized good varieties, like Buenet and Redonet, i decided to graft a few of my Magdal loquats with them. Here are the steps needed to change varieties in established loquat trees.

    https://youtu.be/sT_mEAPRn60

    Now, if only i could get my hands on some Rolhão II (wonderful old Portuguese variety) and Italiano I (the best Italian loquat variety) scions, i would be a happy man.

    A link to a very good description of some of these Loquat varieties (unfortunately its in Spanish - if someone wants something specific translated, let me know)
    http://www.ivia.gva.es/documents/161...0-88059eb3909f

    Its a shame that a great percentage of of the Loquat we are seeing in stores is the variety Golden Nugget (of Californian origin). Spain is a big producer of Loquat and in the last few years is changing a great percentage of their orchards from Algerie and Tanaka to Golden Nugget. That variety was selected as its much less prone to develop the brown skin spots (sun burn spots) that this fruit usually shows and that costumers apparently don't favor, preferring to buy the clear skin fruits.
    These spots don't affect in the slightest way the taste of the fruit (i find that they even enrich it), although they might reduce the shelf life of the product (these areas are the first ones to decay). On the other hand, that clear skin variety is almost completely tasteless compared to any of the other varieties usually cultivated.

    Sometimes, i have a few visitors and give them some loquats to taste. They initially say that they don't care much for this fruit (they are used to the bland, tasteless variety they find in the supermarkets). After they taste a few of the varieties i grow, they rediscover this fruit and are surprised at the complex taste - that mix of acidity and sweetness of the traditional varieties, is hard to beat.

    This only shows that we (the human species) are very funny as a society. We prefer looks over taste and the farmer industry gives us what we want. And after enough time has passed young people don't even know how those fruits used to taste, so everything is fine.
    Jaime - Zone 9b - Portugal - Whish list: Sofeno Claro, Paderne, Pardinho, Bournabat, Bouhouli, Thermalito, Unk. Pastiliére, Luv, Genovese Nero.

  • #2
    I haven’t ever had a loquat, but now I’m very curious! Thank you for working to preserve valuable varieties for future generations! Do they grow happily in pots?

    Comment


    • Jsacadura
      Jsacadura commented
      Editing a comment
      Yes they do, and can turn into beautiful ornamental plants. But to achieve any real production, they would have to be planted directly in the ground.

    • BrightGreenNurse
      BrightGreenNurse commented
      Editing a comment
      Jsacadura That was exactly the answer I was looking for, thank you!!!

  • #3
    Jaime, I am a big fan of loquats and picked up Argelino (Algerie) recently. It is considered a good variety but supposedly a few others are better: Vista White, Kanko, Novak and Ed’s Delight. Avri, from Israel is also highly regarded. Most likely these are all named seedlings.

    There is a variety called ‘Italy’ available in collections, reputedly very sweet with low acidity. but I wonder if it’s the same as the one you refer to as Italiano.

    Comment


    • DerekWatts
      DerekWatts commented
      Editing a comment
      Ram, how well do loquats fare in the PNW?

    • ramv
      ramv commented
      Editing a comment
      Derek, we have at least a couple of trees in Seattle that are larger then anything I’ve seen in California. These also fruit every year.
      There are hundreds of trees in Vancouver BC that are quite old. of those, I’m told only 5 produce fruit every year.
      Selection is super important, just like with figs. I am trialing 15 top varieties from around the world in the hope that I will find a few winners.

    • DerekWatts
      DerekWatts commented
      Editing a comment
      Thanks! I'm excited to see what you turn up.

  • #4
    Jaime, have you grown any from seeds and what were your results?
    Jennings, Southwest Louisiana, Zone 9a

    Comment


    • Wisner
      Wisner commented
      Editing a comment
      Thanks for your answer JamesB.

    • Jsacadura
      Jsacadura commented
      Editing a comment
      I have several loquats that were grown from seedling and JamesB is right. Most will be too acidic (although with a very strong 'real' loquat flavor), take a long time to bear fruit and the fruit will be small. Nevertheless, there were lots of very good local seedlings all over Portugal that people used to replicate locally.Most of them appeared spontaneously and later were grafted or air layered to preserve the variety. Unfortunately, most nurseries now only sell Argelino or Tanaka, with the occasional rare, very good, non unidentified seedling mixed in.

    • Wisner
      Wisner commented
      Editing a comment
      Thanks Jaime for the info. I am growing a seedling tree that a man gave me. Hopefully it will give some good fruit in a few years.

  • #5
    Nice nespera. I looked into finding/growing some of these after my Portuguese relatives talked about them. Bass was selling some seedlings. I was just thinking about this topic this morning. There is not much research on them (in English anyways) that I found. It seems like in Ohio zone 6a it won’t be possible, even in a hoop house to try and extend the growing season. I’m I right on this?
    NE Ohio, Zone 6a. Wishlist: De Tres Esplets, Unk Teramo, Red Lebanese BV, Iranian Candy / Raasti NPU, Green Michurinska, Moscatel Preto, Persistant Caprifig

    Comment


    • Jsacadura
      Jsacadura commented
      Editing a comment
      I have a friend that went to Switzerland to work and likes Nêsperas so much that after a few years he took a plant with him. Every year he builds a shelter for the loquat and has managed to succeed in producing a few fruits. As i said the problem is that loquats flower in late fall, early winter and the fruit develops through the winter maturing in April/May, so it will be very difficult in a 6a zone, unless you have a greenhouse.

  • #6
    I've just found that Rolhão II and Italiano I are two varieties stored at a Spanish loquat germoplasm repository (link below) .

    Italiano - I (copied from the file on this variety on that website and translated with google)
    1. Vegetative characteristics
    Very vigorous variety, semi-open bearing and an average of 3 side shoots per central bud.
    Approximately 88.5% and 29% of the central and lateral shoots, respectively, they are fruitful. Very productive variety.
    Large leaves, with spaced teeth. Middle apex shape and section corrugated cross
    2. Flowering
    Full flowering in the third week of November (10 days before 'Algerie').
    Intermediate panicle of moderately abundant flowering (average of 160 flowers / panicle), yellowish white color and a curd of 6.11%.
    3. Characteristics of the fruit
    Full ripening in the first week of May (1 days before 'Algerie').
    Flattened fruit, rounded cross section, rounded peduncular area, cavity of open calyx and flat apex. Both the skin and the pulp are orange.
    Average weight of 51.38 g, average size of 45.15 mm and thickness of the pulp of 11.26 mm. Easy peeling and very good flavor.
    Soluble solids: 12.10 ºBrix. Acidity: 7.77 g / l ac. malic Firmness: 0.85 Kg / cm2
    Seeds of oval shape, average weight of 1.68 g and an average of 4 seeds per fruit.

    Rolhão II

    1. Vegetative characteristics
    Vigorous variety, open bearing and with a majority of 3 lateral buds per shoot central.
    100% of the central shoots are fruitful and 90% of the lateral shoots also they are. Very productive variety.
    Leaves of large size, with spaced teeth. Acute apex shape and section Transverse plane and curve.
    2. Flowering
    Full flowering in the second week of November (3 days after 'Algerie'). Conical panicle with abundant flowering (average of 201 flowers / panicle), white and a fruit set of 6.17%.
    3. Characteristics of the fruit
    Full ripening in the first week of May (3 days after 'Algerie').
    Oval fruit, slightly angular cross section, obtuse peduncular area, cavity of the open calyx and concave apex. Both the skin and the pulp are colored orange.
    Average weight of 69.30 g, average size of 46.06 mm and thickness of the pulp of 11.25 mm. Easy peeling and good flavor.
    No incidence of purple spot and mottled and very light tendency to cracked.
    Soluble solids: 9.32 º Brix. Acidity: 10.30 g / l ac. malic Firmness: 1.03 Kg / cm2 Seeds of elliptical shape, average weight of 2.61 g and between 3 and 4 seeds per fruit. Marbled tegument.

    Now i just have to find a way to charm them into sending me a few scions (which would be very difficult) as they only make them available to firms.
    Jaime - Zone 9b - Portugal - Whish list: Sofeno Claro, Paderne, Pardinho, Bournabat, Bouhouli, Thermalito, Unk. Pastiliére, Luv, Genovese Nero.

    Comment


    • #7
      It's a shame that i have to turn to another country when trying to obtain Portuguese varieties, as the local agricultural authorities that preserve and study Portuguese varieties, also don't make them available to the public.
      Here's one collection in the Agricultural Department in Algarve (link to the PDF, below EDIT - i really can't get the links working in this forum - i paste the following link, using the link tool provided, and what appears it's the main page of the website- here it is the full link - http://www.drapalg.min-agricultura.p...da_DRAPALG.pdf)

      It has several fruit species, and many (now) rare varietes of Loquat and Figs. All contacts to obtain cuttings failed. The reply is always the same - they are studying the varieties to see which ones have the best agronomic characteristics and only when the studies finish they will make them available to the nurseries and other firms, if they show interest in selling a few commercially.

      Curiously, a few years ago, during the Economic crisis our country went through, a few of these collections were lost because, without money, some were neglected or the land was reclaimed from lack of pay.
      If some of those varieties were in the hands of fruits enthusiasts they would have been preserved, but no, they were in the hands of the government specialists, so now they will have to try and find the original trees to collect more material, once again and, in some cases, the tree might not be there anymore.
      Last edited by Jsacadura; 12-29-2018, 11:55 PM.
      Jaime - Zone 9b - Portugal - Whish list: Sofeno Claro, Paderne, Pardinho, Bournabat, Bouhouli, Thermalito, Unk. Pastiliére, Luv, Genovese Nero.

      Comment


      • #8
        Thanks for all the info on these amazing cultivars! I've been interested in Rolhão II for several years and must now add Italiano - I to my wanted list along with Buenet and Redonet. What can you tell us about those last two?

        Comment


        • #9
          I love your videos, Jaime. They are informative and easy to follow. Thanks
          Deep in the heart of Texas
          zone 8b

          Comment


          • #10
            I just bought a Gold Nugget variety last year. I was going to look around for some scions of different varieties to graft. Where do you all get your scions from?
            -Luke S. at Keesler AFB, 9a
            -SAH Dad, gardener, fan of comedy, philosophy, and the deep dive on YouTube
            -W/L: Bordissot B/N, JN, CCN, Thermalito

            Comment


            • Jsacadura
              Jsacadura commented
              Editing a comment
              I get them from some friends that send them by mail or i buy a small tree of the desired variety and take some scions to use on my established trees.

          • #11
            I too have what I think is a Gold Nugget. It came with the house and is big tree that is probably 20+ years old. I have successfully air layered it and created two more potted trees. I too am interested in locating some different varieties to graft. I found some scions at Fruit Wood Nursery but I am not sure what would be a good variety to try.
            Chowchilla CA
            Central California Zone 9A

            Comment


            • #12
              Sorry, guys.

              Been away to the forum for sometime due to a death in the family.

              When i can, i will try to answer some of the questions you are asking.

              Regarding scions, as i'm located in Europe, sending scions of other varieties it's not possible. I would check other forums like "Growing Fruit" and would ask for scions there.

              Regards,
              Jaime - Zone 9b - Portugal - Whish list: Sofeno Claro, Paderne, Pardinho, Bournabat, Bouhouli, Thermalito, Unk. Pastiliére, Luv, Genovese Nero.

              Comment


              • #13
                How is champagne variety?
                Fallbrook,ca hater of melon figs

                Comment


                • Jsacadura
                  Jsacadura commented
                  Editing a comment
                  I don't have access to that variety, over here, so i can't say how it tastes.

              • #14
                What variety would you recommend for someone that likes tart fruit? I was referred to your youtube channel regarding the fig pollination video. I couldn't see how to contact you there to see if I could share your video via a website blog post. Do you allow that? Thanks!
                Get On The Map: http://www.PHiGGY.ORG
                Growing Zones 6b and 9b: Listed here http://bit.ly/PHiGGY-Figs
                WL: BFF, Open to other ideas

                Comment


                • ramv
                  ramv commented
                  Editing a comment
                  You should also post this on tropicalfruitforum.com
                  Your location matters a lot. Varieties good in so cal are not good in nor cal etc.

                • Phiggy
                  Phiggy commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Thank you, Jsacadura!

                • Jsacadura
                  Jsacadura commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Thanks for the suggestion about posting in tropical fruit forum. But, i am having trouble keeping up with the forums i am already a member (and doing a lousy job due to very limited time available), so, for now, i will keep with the ones i use.

              • #15
                paulish, regarding the varieties you asked, here's some info:

                'BUENET'
                1. Vegetative characteristics Variety of medium vigor, erect bearing and with an average of 3 lateral buds per central bud.
                Approximately 90% and 32% of the central and lateral shoots, respectively, they are fruitful.
                Productive variety Medium-sized leaves, with average tooth density. Middle apex shape and curved cross section.

                2. Flowering Full flowering in the second week of November (5 days after 'Algerie').
                Conical panicle of very abundant flowering (average 227 flowers / panicle), colored yellowish white and a fruit set of 4.10%.

                3. Characteristics of the fruit Full ripening in the first week of May (2 days after 'Algerie').
                Fruit elongated rounded, slightly angular cross section, zone peduncular obtuse, slightly open cavity cavity and flat apex.
                Both the skin and the pulp are orange-yellow. Average weight of 58.20 g, average size of 43.09 mm and thickness of the pulp of 10.68mm.
                Easy peeling and good flavor.
                Soluble solids: 11.03 ºBrix. Acidity: 15.64 g / l ac. malic Firmness: 1.46 Kg / cm2 .
                Seeds of elliptical shape, average weight of 2.83 g and an average of 2-3 seeds per fruit.

                'REDONET'
                1. Vegetative characteristics Vigorous variety, open bearing and with an average of 2 lateral buds per shoot central.
                100% of the central shoots are fruitful and 85% of the lateral shoots also they are.
                Productive variety Leaves of large size, with slightly spaced teeth. Apex shape acute and curved cross section.

                2. Flowering Full flowering in the first week of November (9 days before 'Algerie').
                Conical panicle of very abundant flowering (average of 273 flowers / panicle), colored white and a fruit set of 6%.

                3. Characteristics of the fruit Full ripening in the second week of November (1 day before 'Algerie'). Rounded fruit, round cross section, rounded peduncular area, cavity of the calyx slightly open and flat apex.
                Both the skin and the pulp are colored orange. Average weight of 52.66 g, average caliber of 44.72 mm. and pulp thickness of 10.17mm.
                Easy peeling and very good flavor.
                No incidence of purple spot, cracked and mottled.
                Soluble solids: 11.93 ºBrix. Acidity: 8.04 g / l ac. malic Firmness: 0.76 Kg / cm2 Seeds of elliptical shape, average weight of 1.60 g and an average of 4 seeds per fruit.
                Jaime - Zone 9b - Portugal - Whish list: Sofeno Claro, Paderne, Pardinho, Bournabat, Bouhouli, Thermalito, Unk. Pastiliére, Luv, Genovese Nero.

                Comment


                • #16
                  Jsacadura , could you please comment on the advantages of grafting to seedling vs grafting to quince rootstock? I have many varieties of highly rated loquats now, mostly grafted to quince (Provence/BA29-C) but several also on seedling. Grafting on quince is not popular in the US. I've heard that quince really dwarfs the tree. Some say it reduces productivity, others say it increases it. I am not sure what the right answer is.

                  Comment


                  • Mateo Milmo
                    Mateo Milmo commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Hey Ram, could you share where you sourced your loquat scions, I'm looking for good varieties to graft as well.

                  • Jsacadura
                    Jsacadura commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Grafting to quince is very common in comercial orchards. It has a high compatibility, makes a smaller adult tree and anticipates producción (productivity is another matter, but comercial growers want BIG loquats, as they sell better, so less is good). The only downside is that it tends to reduce longevity a bit (but still quite acceptable considering the advantages).

                • #17
                  Awesome, thank you for sharing!
                  Wish List: CdDM, CC, Figo Preto, Galicia Negra, Black Zadar

                  Comment


                  • #18
                    I want to start growing loquat, there's a huge tree in a local park that is always loaded with fruit. I'm probably gonna visit it this weekend to see if it has some spring loquats on it still, probably will be mature and more on the sweeter side now.
                    I actually tried to air layer it only to find that the branches I airlayered where cut off by someone so that bummed me out a bit. I'll have to find another specimen to clone.
                    Monterrey, MX Zone 10b // San Antonio,TX Zone 9a
                    WL: Thermalito, Exquisito, CC, Zaffiro, Siblawi, HdA, Calderona, Flanders, GM 172, Grise de St. Jean

                    Comment


                    • #19
                      I’ve got a gold nugget as it’s the only improved variety you can source here from the local nurseries. I really wanted an Avri though.
                      Wishlist: Empty? Seriously? I suppose I still need that land.
                      Round Rock, TX 8b

                      Comment


                      • ramv
                        ramv commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Nice. I might be able to trade you Avri next year. I just grafted it this year.

                      • Tinnitus
                        Tinnitus commented
                        Editing a comment
                        ramv That would be awesome. I tried to get my hands on scion wood a few years ago from tropical fruit forum with no luck. Seems like it is still a fairly rare variety here in the states. Have you seen anyone who has actually fruited it yet?

                      • ramv
                        ramv commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Yes, plenty of people have fruited it. It is definitely very good.

                    • #20
                      I read that loquat can be grafted onto photinias. Anyone have experience with this? I've got some huge 20+ year old red tip photinias in the yard that would make great guinea pigs.
                      Last edited by FigTex; 05-06-2019, 11:40 AM.
                      Deep in the heart of Texas
                      zone 8b

                      Comment


                      • ramv
                        ramv commented
                        Editing a comment
                        You can certainly try it. Chinese photinia is used as loquat rootstock and produces a highly dwarfed tree. I've been using quince and graft compatibility is very good. But it suckers a lot.

                    • #21
                      Not sure of the variety but these guys are huge with a decent acidity to sweetness balance.
                      Fallbrook,ca hater of melon figs

                      Comment


                      • Jsacadura
                        Jsacadura commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Those seem huge. How is the ratio of pulp thickness versus seeds inside?

                    • #22
                      Here's a video review on some varieties of loquats i am growing...
                       
                      Jaime - Zone 9b - Portugal - Whish list: Sofeno Claro, Paderne, Pardinho, Bournabat, Bouhouli, Thermalito, Unk. Pastiliére, Luv, Genovese Nero.

                      Comment


                      • #23
                        Jaime decent ratio of meat to seeds probably the size of the local variety in your video. My graft of it took as I followed your video. Thank you
                        Fallbrook,ca hater of melon figs

                        Comment


                        • #24
                          I am so jealous of you all for having fruiting loquats. I first got addicted in the Army when they grew huge bushes outside my Colonel's HQ in San Antonio when I was stationed there a while.Later a few years ago they grew all around the motel I stayed at in FL when I had a contract down there,and were superb.Brought seed here to NC and grew a nice tree but winter cold always killed the flowers as it blooms in winter. I see theres a variety called CHRISTMAS tat supposedly ripens early(and so must bloom early).
                          Do any of you have this Christmas loquat and can tell us about it's bloom and fruiting schedule.? liked the fact the loquats I saw has zero bugs and thus needed zero sprays which I hate.
                          Z8A NC SANDHILLS

                          WISH LIST :CC, ZAFFIRO, CAMPANIERE

                          Comment


                          • ramv
                            ramv commented
                            Editing a comment
                            Zone 8A should be possible to grow loquats. We are only slightly warmer at 8B. We have 100+ year old trees here that fruit every year. Even this year with the vortex!

                          • ramv
                            ramv commented
                            Editing a comment
                            Oh. I’ve heard Christmas is a low quality variety and never ripens before March anyway (in the South). You should look for Argelino or Novak.

                        • #25
                          Ram it is not possible to fruit them they bloom ni autumn and frost gets the little fruit that form late Npvember.cannot tale freezes and we get lot in Nov/Dec. I saw this haen for 12 years with my tree.Finally removed it and have here another tree there.If theres one thatfruits there do not you have freezes i Nov/Dec there?If so hows the fruit survive?
                          Z8A NC SANDHILLS

                          WISH LIST :CC, ZAFFIRO, CAMPANIERE

                          Comment


                          • ramv
                            ramv commented
                            Editing a comment
                            You should look for varieties that bloom late or bloom continuously through winter. If one bloom gets frosted out, more is on the way. There is no variety I’m aware of that fruits as early as December anywhere north of the true tropics.
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