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  • New to Raspberries

    I would like to start some Raspberries and blackberry bushes this year and have read its best to have a few different kinds. I assume this is for staggered fruit production.

    Which types should I be looking at?
    Last edited by sal; 02-16-2020, 01:02 PM.
    Zone 6a Orange County NY

  • #2
    I think there are personal preferences just like anything else. I prefer thornless varieties if possible. I have one that is all thorn and very minimal berry. I’m ripping it out this year.

    Flavor-wise, just depends on what you like. Goldens are low acid, they’re good but I prefer other kinds more. The golden I have is good but it needs more room I think. I think I prefer varieties like Meeker. I really don’t care for black raspberries, none of the ones I’ve had tasted like anything. I have Canby here and it’s consistent but not necessarily top quality. I’d rate it better for preserves than my golden because it has more flavor.
    Willamette Valley Oregon, zone 8b. WL: zaffiro, Black Tuscan, rodgrod, campaniere, CLBC, de la Gloria, thermalito, del sen juame gran, Sangue dolce, Black ischia, Jack Lily, vincenzo, verdolino, Syrian dark, rubado

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    • #3
      I guess I also need to read up on what would work for my area. I assume they have to be really hardy.
      Zone 6a Orange County NY

      Comment


      • Sod
        Sod commented
        Editing a comment
        Raspberries are generally pretty hardy as far as I know, but my circle of reference isn’t that wide.

    • #4
      I would call the nearest Cooperative Extension Office https://cce.cornell.edu/localoffices to ask a Master Gardener for information about growing blackberries & raspberries and whether Spotted Winged Drosiphila is a pest where you live. Here's info on cultivars & nurseries in New York. https://blogs.cornell.edu/berrynurseries/
      Christine (Waddell, AZ Zone 9b) Wishlist: All my fig wishes have been fulfilled by OurFigs members. Thank you!

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      • sal
        sal commented
        Editing a comment
        Thank you for the info. I'll ask them.

    • #5
      I had raspberries and blackberries in zone 6b and zone 10b before. They were pretty hardy even though they can get damage in severe winter. Since most of mine were primocanes(less common in blackberries), they can easily regenerate in spring and bear fruit by the fall.

      My favorite were prime ark 45, a thorny one developed at Arkansas and Anne gold. Ark 45 is vigorous, very productive, bear big fruit with complex taste. The only downside is it is a thorny one. Like many thorny ones, it is an upright type requiring little support but support usually improves production. In zone 10, the only time it slowed down was in January.

      Anne gold suckers a lot so you need to plant it far apart keeping the 3 years window in mind. It bears decent size gold or pale yellow fruit with more delicate taste. The cluster is reasonably tight so they don't fall apart when picking. I typically picked them when they were 70-80% ripe to avoid attracting flies. They like cooler weather and less sunny locations, the opposite of the ark 45.

      I have tried most of the primocanes from the Arkansas program. The latest are the Freedom and the Traveler, both are thornless. Mine are not at a productive stage yet so I can't comment the quality but it is worth looking into if you prefer thornless.

      Blackberries thorns are pain in the butt 😆 unlike the raspberries so choose carefully.
      Moved from 10b to 7a

      Comment


      • #6
        I have been growing for a very long time in zone 5b/6a Michigan. Get a yellow, Anne or Fall Gold, For red the most productive raspberry is Himbo Top. It is sweet and low acid for a red. Good for fresh eating. If you want to make jam and syrups Prelude is very tart and makes the most awesome jam and syrup too. The syrup is amazing! It also is extremely productive.
        If SWD is a problem stick with summer bearing. Taylor, Cascade Gold, and Encore. I heard good things about K-81-6 summer bearing from Canada. You can get it at Indiana Berry I suggest using them anyway.

        On blackberries most grow thornless. Thornless types though are not that sweet and have a grassy aftertaste I cannot stand. All of them have it. Luckily when processed it disappears. All the same I removed all of mine. I will add the newest thornless though as it is leagues ahead of the others but will not be released till next year. Ponca is the name. If you must try thornless Osage and Caddo are the best Indiana Berry has both. Best order soon too. I would not rely on any one opinion research yourself. I also suggest trying Josephine, Polka, and Caroline. They don't always work everywhere, but all are excellent tasting raspberries.

        Here is a typical harvest for me at peak ripening time in the summer.

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        • #7
          Originally posted by drew51 View Post
          I have been growing for a very long time in zone 5b/6a Michigan. Get a yellow, Anne or Fall Gold, For red the most productive raspberry is Himbo Top. It is sweet and low acid for a red. Good for fresh eating. If you want to make jam and syrups Prelude is very tart and makes the most awesome jam and syrup too. The syrup is amazing! It also is extremely productive.
          If SWD is a problem stick with summer bearing. Taylor, Cascade Gold, and Encore. I heard good things about K-81-6 summer bearing from Canada. You can get it at Indiana Berry I suggest using them anyway.

          On blackberries most grow thornless. Thornless types though are not that sweet and have a grassy aftertaste I cannot stand. All of them have it. Luckily when processed it disappears. All the same I removed all of mine. I will add the newest thornless though as it is leagues ahead of the others but will not be released till next year. Ponca is the name. If you must try thornless Osage and Caddo are the best Indiana Berry has both. Best order soon too. I would not rely on any one opinion research yourself. I also suggest trying Josephine, Polka, and Caroline. They don't always work everywhere, but all are excellent tasting raspberries.

          Here is a typical harvest for me at peak ripening time in the summer.

          Beautiful! I was just thinking about ordering a blackberry and raspberry to grow each out in a large container as a trial.

          I am very interested in Prime Ark Freedom because they're tolerant to heat and humidity of the south (I'm in NC), and they're the only thornless primocane fruiting variety, so I'm very interested in having blackberries first season and simply hard pruning them to the ground every year and letting them grow back. That takes all the work out of blackberries, which, of course is the maintaining of the growth to the second season. I'm a little upset to hear your review of the grassy aftertaste, though. Have you tried Prime Arkansas Freedom? This is why I want to try them before I commit space in-ground.

          Can you recommend an early raspberry? Since our summers are so hot here, and pests really move in early mid-July and August, I want a variety that can fruit in May and June when pest pressure is low and before the humidity thunderstorms move in.
          Zone 8A Southeast NC Coast
          Subscribe via YouTube:https://www.youtube.com/c/TheMillennialGardener
          Follow me on Twitter: https://twitter.com/NCGardening

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          • #8
            Some of the more recent additions don't have that much of an aftertaste. Also if fully ripe, where calyx is crispy brown, the taste is gone. When you harvest though you do pick some too soon, and there it is! I have not grown Freedom. If you go to growingfruit.org, many there have grown it.

            Baba berry works in the hottest of climates. It may need some shade. I'm not sure if early? Himbo Top is my earliest, worth trying for sure. Well the floricane crop is, and the fall crop is early too for that matter. You can prune everbearing types for 2 crops. Some do better than others. Himbo Top will produce your socks off with it's floricane crop.
            Caroline might work too. Prelude is also early but a very tart berry. Which makes for the best raspberry jam, wow! Not so good for fresh eating.
            You can get baba berrry at Bay Laurel in California. Note the raspberries they sell, any of those should work for you. I would give them some afternoon shade though even baba.

            https://baylaurelnursery.com/berries.html
            Last edited by drew51; 02-17-2020, 09:55 AM.

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            • #9
              That picture is awesome! So when I order I have to pot it indoors temporarily? Or do so some places schedule? I ask because it's still winter in NY. I just don't want a place to be sold out if I wait until April or whenever planting time should be.
              Zone 6a Orange County NY

              Comment


              • drew51
                drew51 commented
                Editing a comment
                It's a good question. Indiana Berry will send at the appropriate time. Many will ask you, look for their policy on shipping. West coast nurseries will not unless told. The rule for planting raspberries and blackberries is if they are bare root and dormant, you can plant as long as the ground is workable. If frozen, you have to wait. Freezing temps will not hurt the dormant plants.So if ground is workable plant them. Your best bet.
                About a month ago I ordered a raspberry plant, two blueberry plants and a couple of rhubarb plants. I think it will be delivered around April 1st. Some send early but raspberries can be planted even with freezing temps. I'm positive they will send dormant plants, no leaves, no soil, bare root. Keep those roots moist! They will leaf out. And if they die, Indiana will replace them.

                More berry porn
                Tayberry is a blackberry raspberry cross that is low acid and sort of tastes like Strawberries. One of many cool berries out there.

                https://i.postimg.cc/7ZMqX2dR/Tayberry-2019.jpg

            • #10
              I’ll throw in a vote for tayberry. They’re pretty bomb. They make awesome jam.
              Willamette Valley Oregon, zone 8b. WL: zaffiro, Black Tuscan, rodgrod, campaniere, CLBC, de la Gloria, thermalito, del sen juame gran, Sangue dolce, Black ischia, Jack Lily, vincenzo, verdolino, Syrian dark, rubado

              Comment


              • #11
                Originally posted by Sod View Post
                I’ll throw in a vote for tayberry. They’re pretty bomb. They make awesome jam.
                Here I have to zone push to keep them going. I cover most of the plant with leaves when I can. So some years I don't get a lot. So I mix them with Wyeberries, which are bigger, and have fairly high acid so tart. The riper the sweeter. Anyway the combination makes an excellent jam, one of my best. Wyeberries are a strain of boysenberry, a little earlier, and a touch bigger too.

                Wyeberries, a little small, they get bigger.



                I like the the raspberry-blackberry hybrids like tayberry and wyeberry. None taste alike, they seem to all be different. I grow Newberry a cultivar of Oregon State. It has 35 or some cultivars in it's lineage. Including Boysen, Marion, and Logan. It tastes like a blackberry but has a definite raspberry finish. One of the best berries around and hard to find!

                Newberry




                Another I grow is Marion which I consider the best blackberry ever. I don't have any photos. It is very dark and has a complex rich flavor. Another I have to protect, I grow it in a root pouch and put it with my figs. It's so good, it's worth the trouble. Siskiyou is also another very fine blackberry. All are thorny and trailing and the worst to deal with. I have had so many splinters from thorns it's sickening! Many will not grow them, it's a love-hate relationship
                Last edited by drew51; 02-18-2020, 12:02 AM.

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                • Sod
                  Sod commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Oregon state has done a great job with berry cultivars. My wife works there, but I don’t think we can buy directly from the Ag program. Look up Columbia giant. I’ll be getting a few of those either this year or next. We did a tayberry/salmon berry mix jam that was phenomenal. I guess I take it for granted how easy berries grow here.

              • #12
                Caroline raspberries are really good. I've tried 5 different varieties and those are my favorite so far. I'm trialing a few more this year.
                -Luke S. at Keesler AFB, 9a
                -SAH Dad, gardener, fan of comedy, philosophy, and the deep dive on YouTube
                -W/L: JN, CCN, Thermalito

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                • drew51
                  drew51 commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Caroline is excellent. It is one of the best flavored, if not the best.I can't think of any better. Nothing is perfect and it's growth habit here is not great. It's tough here in 5b/6a I still grow it as flavor is a strong factor for me. I like Josephine a lot too. It has jumbo berries and unlike most jumbo fruit they are excellent.

              • #13
                crademan , I emailed that office you linked regarding that pest.

                Also, I've been looking at Indiana Berry and how many plants of each do I need?
                Zone 6a Orange County NY

                Comment


                • crademan
                  crademan commented
                  Editing a comment
                  I'm flattered but I live in Waddell, AZ (Zone 9b) where it never snows, we have 3-4 frosty nights a year, our soil is alkaline, and our water is salty. I don't know anything about New York's soil and climate.

                  A New York Master Gardener can give you specific information about growing raspberries and blackberries in your part of New York state. P.S. This is a link to the Indiana Berry Co. Planting Guide: https://indianaberry.com/pdf/Plantin...Pages_2017.pdf

              • #14
                Plants can be spaced many ways. I like 3 or 4 feet apart. Suckers will fill it in. So it depends how big a patch you want. Two foot spacing works too, and it fills in faster. With blackberries you could tip root new plants, but if you don't want to wait, buy more. I space those a little farther apart as they often grow large. You can always cut space by buying another plant or tip rooting or moving a sucker and placing between your other plants. Mine are now spaced about 2 feet apart because I have so many. I have 3 beds. two are for raspberries. Here's what I'm growing although I have removed a lot of plants to meet my needs.

                Raspberries:

                Josephine
                Anne
                Irene
                Polka
                Prelude
                Taylor
                Kiwi Gold
                Honey Queen
                Encore
                Cascade Gold
                Himbo Top
                Double Gold
                Crimson Night
                Caroline
                K-81-6

                Blackberries:

                Siskiyou
                Marion
                Anastasia Wyeberry
                Tayberry
                Newberry

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                • #15
                  In my limited experience raspberries spread pretty quick. You can probably space them 3 or 4 feet apart if you don't mind waiting for them to fill in after a year or so. I have Boyne and Latham varieties plus Fall Gold. They've spread like weeds. I'm actually going to move them this spring to a spot where I can manage them better.
                  Travis - Zone 5a, Central WI
                  Wish list - Green Michurinska, Yellow Neches, Any good breba producers or early varieties

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                  • sal
                    sal commented
                    Editing a comment
                    What seasons do the Boyne and Lantham fruit?

                  • WIFigger
                    WIFigger commented
                    Editing a comment
                    sal - I believe in July. Those fruit on the floricanes and are super hardy is the main reason I got them. I may have some extra after I dig them if you want to try them. The reds anyway. The Japanese beetles have been pretty bad the past few years so it's been hard to keep them in good shape. I'm probably going to end up spraying this year.

                  • sal
                    sal commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Thanks for the offer WIFigger

                • #16
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ID:	715959 In the PNW we are lucky enough to have incredible wild blackberries as well.
                  We pick them and I make blackberry wine.
                  I use blackberries at a 1.5X ratio compared to most recipes to get deep blackberry flavor.
                  The key is to back sweeten just enough to balance the wine without tasting too sweet.
                  Most people have only tasted sweet fruit wines.
                  If you sweeten properly, it makes all the difference in the world.
                  For cultivated blackberries I like Chester.
                  I like every variety of raspberry I have tried.
                  The only thing to be aware of is that many black raspberries have the potential to introduce issues to other raspberry and blackberry crops.
                  Not worth the gamble in the PNW.
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                  Last edited by Netstars; 02-18-2020, 12:10 PM.
                  Zone 8B - Cottage Grove, Or
                  Wish List - Raspberry Tart to be common!

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                  • Netstars
                    Netstars commented
                    Editing a comment
                    drew51 Is it true that there is no such thing as a thornless Black Raspberry?
                    I am saving that Black Tuscan for you.
                    Maybe I could trade for some Black Raspberry plants?

                  • drew51
                    drew51 commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I don't know of any thornless, but I bet one day....

                    I may have some plants in the fall. I plan to tip root every cane . I need backups myself!

                  • grasshopper
                    grasshopper commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I am getting thirsty just looking at the pic

                • #17
                  Love my Sweetie Pie blackberries! As soon as I harvest my Kiowa’s this summer, will mow them down, pull up, and replant the row with Sweetie Pie blackberries. I can’t stand the thorns. My hands and feet still hurt from cleaning the Kiowa bed out this past weekend (don’t wear crocks in the blackberry batch if you have thorn varieties!).
                  Hilliard Lawler, DVM, Indianola, Mississippi Zone 8A
                  "Home of BB King" https://bbkingmuseum.org/
                  wish list: Col. Littman's Black Cross

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                  • #18
                    I bought some raspberries at one of the club stores, bushel and berry supposed to be dwarf, 2-3ft. high. they've been out since '16 developed by Ark. no real reviews feedback on these anyone know about these?

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                    • #19
                      I like to breed plants and I decided to try rubus species.My best results were with black raspberries. Niwot is a primocane fruiting black raspberry.
                      The primocane berries though were terrible, so bad you don't want to eat them. The floricane berries are excellent. Some of the best I have had.
                      I also have a wild black from Ontario, actually it is brown colored black raspberries. Like the reds, black raspberries can be brown, yellow, red or black.Anyway this Ontario wild appears super healthy, it is vigorous and the berries are big! I wanted to make a better tasting primocane berry and vigor and size are also desirable. So I bred Niwot with Jewel and Niwot with the wild Ontario. I did the crosses, collected the seed and planted out. I got about 5 plants out of the cross. I'm still learning how to germinate rubus seeds. I kept the best two. here is one I think is Ontario x Niwot
                      So I grew it our 2 years and it's first large floricane crop. The flavor was very good, and the size was big. I still would like more time. Here is the Floricane crop,


                      Berries were nice size


                      The plant had two new primocanes and I was curious what the primocane crop would be like? Well holy moly!
                      The two canes had berries at the tip of the cane, and at the tips of the laterals.

                      Here is the main cane tip. Wow black raspberries in September!? That's different!
                      The size of the berries are the biggest black raspberries I ever saw!



                      The lateral branches ended like this



                      I have not decided what to call it? I have another that also has 2 crops,that is doing well too. I'm keeping both.


                      Comment


                      • drew51
                        drew51 commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Mac Black from Michigan is rated to zone 3. I have not tried it but some report it's better than Jewel. Indiana Berry has it. I don't know of any others rated to zone 3. Mac btw I pretty sure is short of Mackinaw or Mackinac. I'm going to pick this up one day. I have an order with Indiana too.I should have added it!

                      • DerekWatts
                        DerekWatts commented
                        Editing a comment
                        drew51 if you ever decide to release Lynn's Black, I'd love to purchase a couple from you.

                      • drew51
                        drew51 commented
                        Editing a comment
                        I will try and spread it around. I may have to multiple air layer a primocane. to get a bunch!

                    • #20
                      The process of primocane and floricane exists with all Raspberries?
                      Zone 6a Orange County NY

                      Comment


                      • drew51
                        drew51 commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Yes, I didn't know about the blacks Niwot seemed brand new, and I met Pete who created Niwot. He has helped me so much. Doing some research a very old black raspberry called Ohio Treasure was around and it was primocane fruiting. If has been rediscovered and now available. I would love to hear the back story on how it was reintroduced. Maybe from ARS? Pete told me he found a wild primocane fruiting black and used it in his crosses.
                        It seems the primocane fruiting trait is dominant since they appeared after the first cross. I have another that is a Jewel x Niwot cross. I need another year or two to compare more. These things tend 5to die after a few years here. the exception is the Ontario Brown cap. It's an amazing plant that seems very resistant to any problem. I'm hoping those traits carry through.
                        Last edited by drew51; 02-18-2020, 10:48 PM.

                    • #21
                      In crossing the blacks I used a wild found in Ontario. It is the species black raspberry, Rubus occidentalis. Which are often called black caps, when a different color they are called brown, yellow, or red caps.
                      The wild Ontario is a brown cap. It is yellow at first, then turns a brown shade when ripe. The canes start green but instead of turning purple they turn yellow on this one.I need to take some better photos. These are from 2016. I grow it in a 20 gallon root pouch. Here are some photos of it.





                      You can see here it's ripe color, and also how much bigger it is than my other black raspberries.



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                      • #22
                        Also, will any plants produce the same year I start them? I saw on the Willis Orchard site they offer 2yr 3yr and 10yr rooted plants.
                        Attached Files
                        Zone 6a Orange County NY

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                        • Sod
                          Sod commented
                          Editing a comment
                          I wouldn’t buy anything more than a two-year-old plant.

                        • drew51
                          drew51 commented
                          Editing a comment
                          I agree.

                        • grasshopper
                          grasshopper commented
                          Editing a comment
                          It may help to ask them how big the 2 yrs are. Different nurseries have different definition but measurement is more objective.

                      • #23
                        I second Caroline and possibly Encore. Triple crown was another one I tried but it died on me. That plant was a season end sale locally but didn't make it. I heard it is very good.
                        Moved from 10b to 7a

                        Comment


                        • #24
                          Drew is our resident expert on berries.

                          I've been growing Triple Crown thornless for over twenty five years... I received starts while Univ of Arkansas was still conducting their trials. And I have yet to find anything that tops it for taste, size and production of berries... it is a winner in my eyes.


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                          CA 9b "May you sit under your own fig tree..." This metaphor, in use since Solomon, is a wish for the receiver's spirit to know peace, for their family to be secure, and for their life to be fruitful.

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                          • drew51
                            drew51 commented
                            Editing a comment
                            Triple Crown is a winner. It is very productive and has good flavor. And works all over. It worked in Michigan just fine. Navajo is very similar but not as vigorous.
                            The university of Arkansas is going to release it's 20th cultivar next year and it appears to be a special one too. I'm making room for it. It should be available 2021 https://fruitgrowersnews.com/news/ne...cle-of-flavor/

                            This new one actually may compete against the trailing western blackberries as they are for me far superior than any thornless erect U of Ark put out so far.
                            At least as far as taste goes. I look forward to it as the thorny ones are the worst to harvest and manage. It will be ideal to have a thornless with top shelf flavor.
                            Last edited by drew51; 02-21-2020, 05:52 AM.

                        • #25
                          Thanks, everyone for all the feedback... You should see my notebook now filled with notes.

                          So I notice some of the varieties I see mentioned can be ordered and scheduled for shipment. Others would be shipped as soon they are purchased. I assume they stay dormant? For example, a local store now has the "falls gold" but it would be weeks or more before it should be planted. Do I just store this rooted plant in my basement?
                          Zone 6a Orange County NY

                          Comment


                          • grasshopper
                            grasshopper commented
                            Editing a comment
                            I stored mine last year in a cold room for 2 months. They were breaking out of dormancy near the end due to rising temperature. But all took except the last one, a novice friend left it in an open bag for a week before planting.

                          • drew51
                            drew51 commented
                            Editing a comment
                            Whatever way you choose, you have to work at hurting them A good thing!

                          • grasshopper
                            grasshopper commented
                            Editing a comment
                            Yep, I like how tough they are.
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