FMV or fertilization?

[Zuny]

This is a Napoletana Negra and I was wondering if the discoloration on the leaves is FMV or fertilizer related. I use the Joe's from Figtrees.net recomentaion for fertilizer. For liquid fertilizer I altanate with Jacks 20-20-20 and Neptune's fish and sea weed. None of my other fig's look like that. So just curious if its another form of FMV thanks?

[AscPete]

Your leaf mosaic may possibly have an underlying cause of FMV, but IMO the symptoms are indicative of nutrient deficiencies... Magnesium, Nitrogen and micro nutrients (minerals). Good Luck.

[Zuny]

Thank you that helps.

[AscPete]

Joe Morle's fertilizer schedule which is ~ 1 cup of granular 2.25 -10.5 - 6.25 % N-P-K ratio. supplemented with monthly feedings of water soluble Jack's 20-20-20 actually creates a nutrient deficient condition for the plants. The base fertilizer has no micro-nutrients and 1/4 cup of Dolemite limestone.

Jack's is actually recommended at 7 to 14 day intervals similar to Miracle-Gro water soluble fertilizers, when its applied monthly that's at 1/4 to 1/2 dose when mixed at the recommended 1 tablespoon to 1 gallon water.

A simpler combination would be Expert Gardener Tomato plant food (9-12-12 %N-P-K) or Organic Espoma Garden-tone (3-4-4 %N-P-K) for the granular fertilizer with added Dolemite Limestone supplemented with the water soluble fertilizers. Both the Expert Gardener and Espoma contain some micro nutrients. The granular fertilizers are applied at half the recommended rates when supplemented with water soluble fertilizers.

My current fertilization schedule is with Espoma-tone fertilizers supplemented with water soluble Miracle-Gro. The Organic Espoma fertilizers includes beneficial soil microbes (Mycorrhizae) which help to break down the mineral compounds for absorption by the plant roots. The supplemental water soluble fertilizer actually creates a Grow phase which has increased N-P-K, when its stopped the Bloom phase consists of only the granular fertilizer with the reduced N-P-K

[Zuny]

Guest, thank you. I was trying to look over the nutrients value of Joe's fertilization method but because I had mixed everything together and put the fertilizer bags in the garbage I couldn't really do that. So I was gonna head to the store to look over the bags today.

Anyhow, I did looked closer at all my plants last night and they have new branch buds coming out at the bottom with small leaves that are showing signs of magnesium dificiency. I will post a picture in a bit.

Maybe I mess up some were with fertilization but I think Joe's recommend fertilization method is not for me. I am not saying his method doesn't work but what works for one person may not work for another. I also know a lot other people use his method and they have success with it but I think its time for me to try another. I will be taking the simpler method and tryout your fertization method to see if that works better for me.

Thanks again for you input Guest and for looking into things.

[AscPete]

You're welcome.
I tend to break things down to compare 'apples to apples'.
Note the water soluble fertilizer is the only source of micro-nutrients.
Here's a simplification of Morle's fertilization schedule...

Joe Morle's Fertilization Schedule:

1 part Superphosphate, 0-20-0
1 part NPK fertilizer, 5-10-5
1 part Bone Meal, 4-12-0
1 part garden lime, 0-0-0
Combined Ingredients NPK = 2.25 - 10.5 - 6.25 or an ~ 2-10-6 ratio.

1 cup Combine Ingredients per 5 gallon of mix at start of season.
20-20-20 Water soluble fertilizer every 20 days until mid August.
Top dress with Combined Ingredients minus NPK Fertilizer in October.

[Jamie0507]

Hey Zuny! I've found (like Pete says) that although it could be FMV related that things can vastly improve when you correct any nutritional deficiencies..I'm not sure if your fertilizers contain micro-nutrients or not but I would double check that to be sure.. Also, even if your CRF does contain them, it most like doesn't have calcium or magnesium and deficiencies there can quickly show in the leaves (in my limited experience lol). Is your potting mix peat-based or coir-based? I ask because if it is peat-based you may want to add a bit of dolomitic limestone (adjusts ph properly, and adds cal/mag) but if coir based then go with a little bit of gypsum to supply the cal/mag (no ph change).. You could also try a little azomite or rock dust for added minerals..

Don't worry too much though, as long as it's not stunted in growth.. Young trees like ours are growing rapidly, so sometimes they may need to just catch up a bit nutrient wise.. But that's just my 2cents lol.. I'm sure others will chime in too with more suggestions 😉

[Jamie0507]

It's definitely a good possibility Zuny, I read the very same thing too.. Definitely give the azomite a try since you have it at home already.. Oh & I believe miracle grow potting mix is peat-based, so if you happen to have access to some dolomitic lime (not hydrated lime, I think that form would burn the roots) you could add some to the soil surface.. I believe espoma makes small bags of dolomitic lime & I've seen it pretty much everywhere (big box stores etc) Best of luck to you! Keep us posted on how it does

[AscPete]

I use Ironite Mineral Supplement which also has Calcium but no Magnesium, which is added with Epsom Salt...
Dolemite Limestone adds Calcium and Magnesium but takes time to breakdown.
Gypsum will provide readily available Calcium and can be mixed with Epsom Salt to provide a water soluble supplement.

1/4 cup Ironite Mineral Supplement and 1 teaspoon Epson Salt mixed with 1 gallon of water will provide enough water soluble nutrients for a quick boost for a 5 gallon container of potting mix, approximately half of the Ironite will not dissolve and will provide a longer term nutrient release.

The Guaranteed Plant Nutrients of Azomite and Ironite ,

http://agr.wa.gov/PestFert/Fertilizers/FertDB/prodinfo.aspx?pname=1910

http://agr.wa.gov/PestFert/Fertilizers/FertDB/prodinfo.aspx?pname=7142

Ironite Supplement provides more plant nutrients than Azomite.

[drew51]

I agree with Pete all the way. Even though many figs grow naturally in limestone areas, they actually like an acidic environment. Sure they will grow, but if you want them to explode don't increase pH by adding lime. Use Gypsum for sure! Lime can take as long as 6 months to become available to the plant. Can you tell I'm not a fan of lime? I'll put my plants up against any as far as growth and fig production.

[wellingtonbill]

Hello everyone,

I use Azomite in combination with various liquid and granular fertilizers. Most of my figs trees respond well. This extremely hot July in NC 7b has brought on some yellow leaves (my fault in miss watering as needed) and a bit of rust. Otherwise my fertilizing combination is working. Azomite seems to have all that is needed - micro nutrient wise. I would appreciate any feedback.

[Jamie0507]

Bill I'm really liking the addition of azomite this year.. I can't be sure that it is the one thing making all the difference, but it does have the added minerals that should be beneficial with all the active growing going on.. I also used it in my vegetable garden last fall and again in late spring and I don't see any blossom end rot in my tomatoes this year! It was a definite problem last year, so I do feel it has been a good addition for me 👍🏼

[AscPete]

I haven't used the product and have simply done comparisons of guaranteed analysis but Azomite is missing Iron and low in several other required plant micro-nutrients. It does contain several other minerals, but many have not been proven essential for plant growth.

[Zuny]

AscPete , thanks I will use 1/4 cup Ironite Mineral Supplement and 1 teaspoon Epson Salt mixed with 1 gallon because I would like a quicker response from the trees. Instead of using the azomite. The added nutrients is a plus. If you ever need a helper or an apprentice let me know. 😊

Thank you everyone for you quick responses. I really appreciate it. I do use azomite in my vegetable garden and it works great but I will try the ironite minerals for the fig trees.

I will post on here the after pictures of my Napoletana Negra.

[AscPete]

You're welcome.

You may also want to follow up with 1/2 strength Jack's 20-20-20 or other water soluble fertilizers @1-1/2 teaspoon / gallon within a few days (for the additional N-P-K). You should see some results within a week. Looking forward to the photos.

[Jamie0507]

Lol Zuny I asked Pete the exact same thing last summer about becoming his apprentice! I still say Pete should hold classes from time to time.. I'd be all over that opportunity for sure👍🏼 😉

[AscPete]

I'm a novice at cultivating fig trees, I'm also an apprentice.

[Rewton]

Zuny, if your other trees are growing under identical conditions but don't have the leaf discoloration then it would seem to be fmv or some other condition related to the plant (but not the growth conditions). I have a fig that looks like yours growing in ground. Several other figs growing in the same soil a few feet away all have healthy looking leaves. So this would seem to suggest there is nothing wrong with the soil. Anyway, let us know if making additions to the potting mix helps or not.

[AscPete]

FMV infection(s) affect the vigor of the fig tree due to its effects on cellular metabolism.

For potted culture increasing the available plant nutrients is like providing an All You Can Eat Buffet instead of a TV Dinner, The plants will utilize the increased source of "available" nutrients according to their individual metabolic requirements and rate of growth.

[Zuny]

I took a closer look at all my plants and I found some magnesium deficiency on some leaves. The camera made the yellowing on the leaves appear greener then they really are. So it appears to be more then just one plant.

Thanks again everyone. I will fallow AscPetes advice and post on here the after pictures.

[Zuny]

It has only been 4 days since I used 1/4 cup Ironite Mineral Supplement and 1 teaspoon Epson Salt mixed with 1 gallon on my plants and I can see improvement. Here are a couple of pictures. I will give the true week update on Thursday. The second picture is of my napoletana negra (got from Marius of eBay). A lot of improvement on the new growth.

[AscPete]

Thanks for posting the update. Don't forget to apply a dose of a complete fertilizer along with the supplements.

[Zuny]

It is officially the 7 days since I added 1/4 cup Ironite Mineral Supplement and 1 teaspoon Epson Salt mixed with 1 gallon of water to some of my plants and it really helped. Today I will give them another dose of Epsom salt with 5-10-5 fertilizer because the last time I added fertilizer was when I bought them in the beginning of the summer. The plants are all looking greener and healthier some still show signs of FMV but look a lot better. Thanks AscPete and everyone who responded for your help.

[danw]

I just googled Ironite since you are getting such good results and ran across some articles suggesting it may not be so safe to use. I would be especially cautious when using it when growing food crops. I guess the concern is that there are lots of other heavy metals and arsenic in it. It is manufactured from mining wastes. You might want to find a less controversial source of iron. I don't know how true this all is, but better safe than sorry.

This is the first article I found but there are lots of others.

http://www.pccnaturalmarkets.com/sc/0503/sc0503-ironite.html

Dan

[drew51]

Not only organic products Scott's Lawn fertilizer has them too, well in small amounts, as does the soil. Same with Milorganite fertilizer, has less lead than Scott's inorganic fertilizer. If you would rather be safe than sorry, I doubt one could leave the house, or stay in it either. As fumes from synthetic products are throughout most houses.

[Zuny]

I research it a little and found out that a lot of other similar products contain traces of bad elements like lead. Since it has also change from the past I think it will be ok. Here is a link to a video that I found and contains scream shots of the minerals in ironite compared to other products like azomite.

https://youtu.be/MRg0bBpzHTY

[danw]

Interesting video! Yep it does seem like ironite is very comparable to many of the other similar products.

[AscPete]

If you actually read the report their "Results" are based on ingesting / eating the fertilizer, not applying it to the soil.

Most native soils have much higher naturally occurring PPM content of the "Bad" metals. The PPM content actually decreases when mixed with the actual volume of the growing medium.

Checking the Commercial Fertilizer Database,
http://agr.wa.gov/PestFert/Fertilize...tDatabase.aspx

Also provides information of the "Reported Metals" most of which are "Essential Plant Nutrients" / micro-nutrients.

[danw]

Thanks for the link! I guess I should have researched it more before posting! I have used some rock dust products in the past without giving it much thought. It is interesting to see how much zinc is in may of the products. I had my soil tested a couple years ago and found that my soil has very high zinc levels, so I am trying to not compound the problem with soil supplements.

[AscPete]

@danw,
It is a link that's often quoted when Ironite is discussed...

Azomite is another mined mineral and it has a much better reputation, since it was probably not fed to infants. but if you compare the 'Reported Metals' and 'Guaranteed Analysis' Ironite provides better plant nutrients.

The recommendations were for potted plants in peat or coir based potting mixes. For in-ground plants an initial soil test is always recommended for best results, but many experienced gardeners can 'eyeball' the health of their soils.

[AscPete]

Zuny ,

Any additional updates?
Did the trees continue to improve?
Thanks.

[Zuny]

AscPete : The trees did continue to improve the leave got a lot greener and healer. They had much less of the FMV like appearance which was from the obvious lack of some micronutrients. The tree does have FMV but looks much healthier. Some leaves showed FMV systems and some did not. The use of the Epsom salt along with the ironite was what my plants were missing. Sorry did not take additional pictures. I did come up with a new fertilization schedule for next year with the help of your awesome charts. That will be for my 2nd year 5 gallon pots.

[AscPete]

Thanks for the reply and sharing your feed schedule...

I've spent the morning reviewing my existing feed schedules looking to modify next season's, to create some simpler Organic and Chemical based feed schedules with "less moving parts" / fewer individual ingredients.

[Zuny]

Just an update. I think the use of ironite show even better the next year. I woke my Galicia Negra up early and the leave do show signs of fmv (some misshapen leaves) but they look better then last year.

Th first leave was last year around October in the greenhouse. The second leave picture was taken today. I haven't notice the spots on the leaves yet this year.

[AscPete]

Thanks for the update...

The new leaf looks great.
On many fig trees the first few leaves of the season are often slightly deformed but healthy and without visible leaf mosaic, its not necessarily a sign of FMV.

Now the only problem is having enough light for continued healthy growth.

[Zuny]

Thank you. I didn't know that , I just asummed it was fmv. That is good to know.

I keep them in my kitchen where infront of my glass doors. Unfortunately there hasn't been much sun lately but they can get 5hrs of sun when sunny outside.

[lauralou]

Interesting topic. I haven't given enough thought to fertilization, so this is very useful.

[Zuny]

Thank you, I couldn't have done it without AscPete.

[AscPete]

@lauralou,
Creating a feed schedule is simple and can help diagnose problems during the season,

https://www.ourfigs.com/forum/figs-home/100941-fig-tree-nutrition-fertilizer-and-feed-schedule

[lauralou]

Thanks for the link!

[Courtney]

This is awesome information! And there is no consulting fee!!!!!😜

[wellingtonbill]

New season, new FMV on about 25% of my 40+ fig trees of size. As stated in earlier posts some FMV is worse on plants next to beautiful green leafed plants. What is new is a few plants have all their first small new leaves ruffled, splotched and misshapened. FMV kinda sorta waited to this season to "gross me out and challenge my feeble fig doctor brain." I have added Ironite to my poultice. 👨🏼🔬😁

[Zuny]

I have some a couple of newly rooted cuttings inwhich the first leaves are crazy, spotted and misshapened. The current leaves coming up are perfect. Not sure why this happens. I will post a picture tomorrow.

[don_sanders]

If your fertilization is in check, you may want to also check for the presence of mites which can cause similar FMV type symptoms.

[wellingtonbill]

Will do Don, thanks.

[AscPete]

wellingtonbill ,

A few photos could help...
Are these fig trees in-ground or potted?
What's your fertilization schedule? or What fertilizers and or supplements have you applied this season and at the end of last season?

Have you done any prophylactic fig mite spraying with Miticide?

Just curious to see if a deficiency could be a diagnosis...

[wellingtonbill]

Pete, I will send photos tomorrow on this post. Most of my few figs with FMV are in large pots. I sprinkle a mix 75% 10-10-10, 10% Ironite, 5% azomite, and 10% dolomitic lime according to
size of main truck(s) and branches. I fertilize at bud break with this mix. I will, according to rain amounts over the summer, fertilize again around the first of August. Younger and smaller fig plants get Max Grow - light mix per gallon. I am having good growth on most of my plants. Mites will be my detective job tomorrow. Your questions and suggestions are appreciated.

[AscPete]

Bill,
Thanks for the reply...

Using your percentages for the fertilizer mix...

@ 1 cup fertilizer mix (16 tbs)
3/4 cup or 12 tbs 10-10-10
1.6 tbs Ironite
0.8 tbs Azomite
1.6 tbs Dolemite limestone

or
@ 1/4 cup fertilizer mix (4 tbs)
3 tbs 10-10-10
1.2 tsp Ironite
0.6 tsp Azomite
1.2 tsp Dolemite limestone

Just looking at the amounts, the application rates would be deficient in Secondary and Micro Nutrients. Also most NPK only fertilizers (non controlled release) recommend reapplication at approximately one (1) month intervals during the growing season, actually the listed rate on a bag of 10-10-10 is ~ 1 tsp / sq ft / month maximum.



And a basic analysis comparison using info from the fertilizer database;
http://agr.wa.gov/PestFert/Fertilize...tDatabase.aspx

[wellingtonbill]

Pete,

[wellingtonbill]

This is what happens when your brain, fingers and iPhone do not work in tandem. Sorry Pete, for the name calling...ha ha.

[AscPete]

I was about to post "Yes"