5 Gallon Pot / SIP Preferences

**jrdewhirst** · 01-30-2017, 05:50 PM

Here are my thoughts after a year in which I substantially expanded my collection of potted figs:

#1: The bigger the better, IMO, limited only by your ability to handle the weight and bulk of the pot. One thing to consider is that the water reservoir subtracts from the remaining capacity. So a 5g SIP holds ~3.5 to 4g of planting medium. More on size in #2.

#2: I was able to get used pots from a local landscaper. To him, it was garbage. He had a good number of 10 gallon pots, mostly the "squat" version. These have become my default destination. He also had a fair number of 15 gallon pots. Supply permitting, I use these for any of the better varieties that I intend to leave in a pot (vs move to the ground). He also had some 20-25 g pots, which I use for my intended breba producers (e.g. San Pedro's) and premium main crop varieties. Of course, you can get away with smaller.

#3: I SIP'd all of these pots. Of course, it's time-consuming to set up. But it makes regular watering very quick -- you fill the reservoir as fast as the water pours from the hose. In the heat of summer, I still need to water roughly every other day (though if you bag the SIP to reduce evaporation, you might go longer). But I can't imagine putting that much water into that many pots daily, which is what would be required without the SIPs. I also wouldn't want to be stuck home every day; SIPs provide a few days of freedom. The only alternative would seem to be some system using automated watering (e.g., timed drip irrigation).

One caveat -- most nursery pots come with drainage holes. This means that if you use them, then you need to create a reservoir by inserting a container for the water. I ended up using the plastic trays that normally go outside the pot to catch water that has drained through the pot. But of course, I put them inside. These plastic trays are available in a variety of sizes. For my 10-15g pots, I used diameters from 12-16" and heights roughly 3". For the 20-25g pots, I used the plastic covers used for catered plates.

**AscPete** · 01-30-2017, 05:55 PM

IMO 5 gallon SIPs made from 5 gallon buckets are an optimal size for cost, evaluation (growth habit / figs) , ease of moving and winter storage.
I originally purchased buckets from W*mart but am now buying used 5 gallon Pickle buckets from a local Deli.
https://www.ourfigs.com/forum/figs-h...or-fig-culture

The most productive and fastest growing potted fig trees at my location have been pots that have been partially buried (in-ground), with SIPs being the next "best way to go". Good Luck.
https://www.ourfigs.com/forum/figs-h...to-bury-or-not
https://www.ourfigs.com/forum/figs-h...cket-technique

**don_sanders** · 01-30-2017, 06:56 PM

I like 5 gallon buckets too and sips have performed the best for me. If you use two buckets for your sip, you can actually utilize the full 5 gallons which is larger than a 5 gallon trade pot.

If you interconnect them on a level surface (preferred) or in a waterfall affect, you only have to water one location to water them all.

Buckets are also work great for partially buried containers. An automated drip system would be ideal for buried pots as I had to water them every day during the summer. Make sure the holes are on the side rather than the bottom and they only need buried a few inches. Effort to remove them is exponentially related to how deep they are buried.

I get all of mine for free from a bbq joint that gives out free pickles or Wendy's for 4 gallon buckets.

The downsides are the setup time (cleaning, drilling holes, etc) and the appearance.

My next jump will be 30 gallon half barrel sips with ~25 gallons of usable space and ~3 gallon reservoir. These can be had in Craigslist for $10 per 55 gallon barrel. Just need to figure out which varieties to bump up.

**ross** · 01-30-2017, 07:46 PM

I really wanted to create this very topic a while ago, but I think I came to my own conclusion about what's best for me. Personally I think buried 5 gallon containers are your best bet.

Going against what everyone has said thus far, I think grow bags/fabric pots are the second best option. I'd love to hear all of your thoughts. My process: I add organic matter to the container every year and depending on the bag you buy and your growing conditions.. they'll last up to 6 years. At that point you'll need to either up pot or root prune & replace the bag. I use a much simpler mix with these pots-- 50% compost, 50% pine bark fines. In fact I get it all in one bag. No mixing required. I find that figs (and blueberries) do really well in them because of their fibrous roots. They constantly get pruned.

My pros and cons for using grow bags over SIPs below:

Cons:

1. Grow bags dry out a little quicker where as SIPs have that constant water source if necessary. This more efficient water will definitely mean great things for growth and production.
2. Like others have mentioned, the buckets you receive for a low cost or for free from deli's, etc... are cheaper, but if you're not getting them that way, grow bags are not that expensive. Amleo.com sells them for $12.99 for 10, 5 gallon bags that last 3-4 years. Assuming you buy 30 and have a free shipping promo code that Amleo frequently sends out to their customers: http://www.amleo.com/root-pouch-degr...s/p/VP-RPXXXX/
3. They don't last as long as plastic. The longest lasting pots I've found can last up to 6 years: https://www.greenhousemegastore.com/...est-lifespan/s

Pros:

1. You save so much time when using grow bags. You don't have to build SIPs, you don't have to have 3-5 crazy ingredients in your potting mixes and you don't need to root prune every 2 years because of constant air pruning.
2. More growing medium per container. SIPs require a reservoir which takes away from the overall root mass.
3. You can use a heavier/simpler mix in grow bags, which will be more nutrient dense and hold more water vs the common 5-1-1 mix used in SIPs.

I'm sure they are others, but this is all I can think of for now.

**CliffH** · 01-30-2017, 09:26 PM

Kirbydog - Last summer I was asking the same question you are asking now. Here is what I found (IMO). I ran a test. Not exactly scientific, but it worked for me. I bought several roughly the same sized trees from a local nursery. They were on sale ($10 each because I got several), and all looked very poor. Not much more than 3 - 4 foot sticks with a few budding limbs and no leaves left (all about 1" at the base).

I pretty much bare rooted the trees and used the same potting mix. I used the same 2-bucket SIP method that Don describes above for one tree, using a square 4 gallon bucket. For the other trees I used; two 4 gallon bucket with several 1 inch "air-pruning" holes drilled in it, one in a standard 5 gallon nursery pot, and two 5 gallon fiber grow bags.

One of the plain 4 gallon bucket pots and one of the 5 gallon fiber pots were set in shallow watering pans that i kept about 1" of water. The other plain bucket pot, the other fiber pot, and the standard nursery pot I watered normally from above. I pinched off any figs that formed to keep things even.

The results that I saw was that the tree in the 4 gallon SIP grew better than the other pots/methods. There was a noticeable improved difference above the other containers. After this, the grow bag sitting in the shallow water pan was the second best, followed by the 4 gallon bucket sitting in the water tray. The other three showed some differences. But the black nursery pot show the least improvement, if any. This may have been because of the black pot sitting in the Texas summer sun, while all the other containers were white.

SIP or not, bottom watering seemed to work best. The results were good enough that all my smaller trees have been up-potted into the 2-bucket style SIP in the last couple of weeks. Some other larger ones were put into larger SIP's that I made using 22.5" resin pots from HD.

Hope this helps. I did not try burying any part of the pots in my test. Although this probably would have helped a lot on the black nursery pot tree. Oh, I did un-pot the test SIP tree recently to check the roots. It had completely filled the bucket in less than one growing season (I moved it to a larger SIP).

Sorry for the long post....
Cliff H.

**ross** · 01-30-2017, 10:19 PM

I'd love to hear fruitnut 's opinion. The container master himself

**jkuo** · 01-31-2017, 12:05 AM

I've grown my trees in both SIPs and partially buried pots. In general, I see better growth and productivity on the buried pots. I'll probably still continue using SIPs for at least the first year trees, but I'm favoring the buried pots for my more mature trees. After the trees hit a certain height, windy weather makes them a bit tippy. A buried pot with roots growing out into the soil is far less likely to tip over in a storm. The downside to the buried pot is digging it back out. Those trees can send some serious roots into the surrounding soil.

**AscPete** · 01-31-2017, 09:05 AM

Although I haven't actually used the "Commercial" fabric pots I've tried homemade versions and have used "Fabric Liners" for years and still install them in my SIPs.
http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox....unt=27&forum=0

...

Fabric Pots and Liners work as advertised but require either a saucer (Bottom Reservoir) or automated irrigation for healthy uninterrupted growth especially in trees with "solid" root balls.

Originally posted by ross View Post

3. You can use a heavier/simpler mix in grow bags, which will be more nutrient dense and hold more water vs the common 5-1-1 mix used in SIPs...

The 5-1-1 potting mix is not recommended for SIPs. Almost any commercial or custom Peat or Coir based potting mix even some Composts can be used as a SIP Potting Mix. A SIP potting mix only requires a larger portion of smaller particles that aid in "Wicking" the water from the reservoir into the potting mix and roots. Some members use only Mushroom Compost in their SIPs. Attached is the recommendation from Earthbox, a commercial SIP manufacturer,
https://earthbox.com/approved-for-earthbox

https://www.ourfigs.com/forum/figs-h...8857#post48857

And different 5 gallon bucket configurations (drainage hole placement)...

https://www.ourfigs.com/forum/figs-h...7233#post97233

5 Gal Gro-Pro Nursery pots used as Liners in SIPs and Hydroponic. The SIPs have spun landscape fabric Liners inside the nursery pots.

http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox....riment-6828408

**jrdewhirst** · 01-31-2017, 02:20 PM

<< Joe, I'm having a hard time picturing the reservoir you described for the nursery pots with holes in? You place the trays in but do you cover them to create a reservoir? >>

Frank --

Yes, you need spacers and a barrier both to separate the reservoir from the planting medium and to support the planting medium above the reservoir. You also need some wicking material to bring moisture from the reservoir up into the planting medium. See the pic below for what I did. You can adapt to suit your needs. If the picture is not clear, I can send others.

1. Start with pot of desired size. This is a 10g "squat" nursery pot.
2. Insert a plastic tray, selected to fit well across the diameter of the pot and to provide sufficient height. It actually helps if the tray is just slightly less wide than the pot so that when the reservoir fills it overflows out the drain holes. From memory, I think my trays are 12" across and roughly 3" high. If you care, I'll look up exactly the width I used.
3. Cut spacers. Some people use bricks or cut short sections of PVC pipe. I cut ~3" sections from a 10' length of flexible plastic drain pipe. I used the drain pipe with the slits in the side so water could move freely. As you can see, five sections fit perfectly in this size plastic tray.
4. Cut and shape a layer of wire mesh to rest on the spacers and under the planting medium. I used 1/4" mesh, which comes in rolls 48" wide. I started with a square roughly 16" x 16" then folded in the corners and edges to approximate a circle. It helps to use a rubber mallet to flatten the folds in the mesh.
5. Select a small pot to hold the wicking material. I found that a 4" square plastic pot works well.
6. Cut a square opening in the middle of the wire mesh, with dimensions slightly smaller than those of the small pot. Insert the small pot. The spacers should be sized so that the bottom of the small pot, with drainage holes to permit free flow of water, sits on the bottom of the large pot. The top of the small pot should be flush with, or slightly higher than, the plastic mesh.
7. Cover the mesh with a small (e.g., 16" x 16") piece of landscaping fabric (not shown); but cut an opening in the center to expose the small pot. Together, the fabric and mesh (and small pot) will support the planting medium.
8. Cut a length of PVC pipe to serve as the water input to the reservoir. Insert the pipe vertically through a hole in the fabric / mesh. The PVC section in the picture is inserted but not yet cut to length. From memory, I think I used 1 1/4" PVC pipe. But I'd suggest using whatever width you'd need to be able to insert your feeder hose so you don't have to hold it constantly.
9. Fill the small pot to overflowing with some wicking medium (not shown). I found that finely ground sphagnum moss worked fine. I also used strips of burlap, extending from the small pot to the big one, but I ended up deciding that these were unneeded.
10. Fill the large pot above the fabric / mesh with planting medium (not shown). Plant the fig. The PVC feeder tube should extend at least a couple inches above the planting medium.

**jrdewhirst** · 01-31-2017, 02:30 PM

Here's a bunch of my newly potted cuttings, all in 10g SIPs, late last April. FYI, I had thought that longer PVC tubes would save me some bending, but they look ugly. I ended up making them shorter.

Here's one cutting of Filacciano Bianco in a slightly different size pot in late July.

**jrdewhirst** · 01-31-2017, 08:11 PM

I found this sketch that I drew a year ago, before building the SIPs. It shows my approach, more or less, in cross-section. Just note that the plastic tray serving as the water reservoir is labelled "medium pot" and the wire / fabric combination is labelled "wire covered by burlap." Also the spacers are missing.

p.s. The reservoir tray / "medium pot" has no drainage holes, of course. Both the "big pot" and the "small (i.e., wick) pot" do have holes.

**Sas** · 02-01-2017, 01:24 PM

The largest SIPs at Walmart about $10 each should be great for a year or two depending on the variety.
Unfortunately depending on your potting mix some varieties will become rootbound within one season in these pots, but will perform way better than regular pots.
The half whisky barrels at Home Depot would be great, but much heavier when complete. The larger the SIP is the better the results, but it might not be ideal for the back.

**DevIsgro** · 02-13-2017, 12:28 AM

This was a really interesting thread, thank you for pointing this out to me Ross.
My own take. My summers are cool, rarely do I see above 85 and if so it is not during more than a week of the entire summer. I get a lot of light rain and sometimes a bit of heavy rain. Last summer I did not water my trees for 3 months in August and they were fine, they were only just starting to show signs of drying out and needing water when the third week of August rolled around and I remembered I had trees. Now granted they were in a regular water retaining soil mix. This season I decided to give 5-1-1 a try on my figs. I debated about making sips, but it seemed too much bother to make 40 five and seven gallon sips. Over the 2017/2018 winter I will be repotting a handful of trees into 10 gallon containers, with something that large I may just try SIPS and see where that gets me. Had I read this earlier I might have gone 50% in fabric and the rest 5-1-1 in nursery pots, but the repotting is done and they are starting to become active again. I'll likely have to water way too often but it is what it is. For me, the black nursery containers have been great, no overheating, but I do not get the heat that many of you do. Last fall when I was chatting with Vasile he mentioned that for cool climates like mine black containers can extend the season a smidgeon. I suspect that not only will they be less maintenance, but that the SIPS will also result in healthier trees, even in my cool climate.

5 Gallon Pot / SIP Preferences

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