Celeste, LSU Improved Celeste, O'Rourke; Anecdotal Comparison.

[AscPete]

Please share your experiences?
Thanks.

Every year there are always several topics/threads about these three (3) distinct cultivars, I'm always surprised that there is always so much disagreement or confusion.

Celeste, aka improved Celeste, Heritage Celeste, Regular Celeste, Creech Family Sugar Fig, etc...



LSU Improved Celeste, aka Improved Celeste, ICON (Improved Celeste O'Rourke Not), 1-3 lobed Improved Celeste, etc...



O'Rourke aka Improved Celeste, 5 lobed Improved Celeste, etc...

[figgysid1]

I had question about regular Celeste. I have 3 different regular Celeste types, from 3 different sources, all originating in Louisiana. I have gotten a total of 3 ripe figs between 30 trees, 1,000+ dropped. They were 9, 10 and 11 grams. Is that the normal size for a regular Celeste? And what weight are improved Celeste and O'Rourke? Thanks.

[mountainfigs]

Equivalent experience with Celeste dropping here on all trees. Fruit seems to hang on Celeste primarily in the soggy South or possibly where roots have sunk to aquifers, or continually wet SIP basins. In my experience Celeste is one of the most dense-leafed fig trees. This could account for extreme water need and/or its need to be extremely self-shading, rather than scarecrow exposed. Just guessing, though.

Also, see the last row of the chart at the bottom of this article at link:

https://mecklenburg.ces.ncsu.edu/wp-...ips.pdf?fwd=no

Common Causes of Fruit Failure: Condition: Fruit is tough and falls prematurely during hot, dry weather. (Celeste only). / Probable cause: Excessive heat / Suggested remedy: No control

[AscPete]

figgysid1 ,

Celeste; The fruit is small (10-15 grams each) and violet to brown with a light strawberry-colored pulp.

O'Rourke; (L57-11-103) The fruit is 30 to 40 mm in diameter of moderate size (20 gms) light brown fruit. Internal color is tan with some red near center of fruit when soft ripe.

Reference:
http://www.lsuagcenter.com/NR/rdonly...ub1529Figs.pdf
http://hortsci.ashspublications.org/...5/826.full.pdf
http://hortsci.ashspublications.org/...=yes&x=15&y=13

My experience is that the "heirloom" Celeste cultivars (3 different sources) are sensitive to wet dry cycles and will drop their developing figs if the "Dry" periods are too long or extended.

For my potted trees;
Celeste averaged ~ 12 grams
Improved Celeste averaged ~ 24 grams
O'Rourke (pictured above) averaged ~ 45 grams but were "swollen" due to rain.
Late season O'Rourke averaged ~ 25 grams...

[AscPete]

Almost forgot, another distinct cultivar that sometimes gets drawn into the discussions and confusion...

Champagne aka LSU Golden Celeste, Golden Celeste, etc...


Champagne averages ~ 26 grams and is the most reliable and productive cultivar of this group...

[don_sanders]

I hope my Golden Celeste gets better this year because it didn't look anything like that. Yours don't look bad.

[AscPete]

don_sanders ,
This is an LSU Golden Celeste (Celeste Hybrid) , not the USDA Golden Celeste which is a completely different cultivar.

[jrdewhirst]

Pete -- I received a Champagne and a Gold as bonus wood when I bought some other cutting last year. Both grew well and now sit in pots. Do you have any idea how cold hardy they might be? Thx.

[AscPete]

eboone ,
IMO the Tiger has the best flavor of these LSU cultivars, they're all healthy and relatively hardy for in-ground with protection in colder zones.

[mountainfigs]

Time will tell, springtime will tell in full, but current observation this winter is that the in ground Mt Etnas here (by many names) have fared the cold better than all other cultivars. Doubt it's the case, but the breba buds even look potentially viable on the Mt Etnas, unlike on the others. Don't expect they are, but who knows. Many of the Mt Etnas look like no tip dieback. All other varieties look like tip dieback and some significantly more. (Maybe a Celeste (that bore no fruit last year) has no tip dieback too.) This is all looks for now. Time will tell the true tale. LSU Gold looks to have come through well, possibly as well as any other except for the Mt Etnas.

[mountainfigs]

Interesting notes on cold damage to LSU Gold and a few others:

http://www.clemson.edu/extension/hgic/plants/vegetables/tree_fruits_nuts/hgic1353.html

Shows that LSU Gold fared relatively well, tip dieback at 15 degrees F.
Most interesting that "Verdal Longue" was the only cultivar to suffer no dieback at 15 F, and also produced the best. So what is Verdal Longue? I would guess that it could be Longue d'Aout / Nordland. Would stand to reason. However just a guess and could in fact be a different a different long green fig, Verdal Longue.

[figgysid1]

I purchased a fig labeled LSU Golden Celeste(round red pulp). But it does not look anything like LSU Champagne.. All were over 80 grams up to 110 grams. IMO it appears to be a close relative of LSU Gold, but larger size, more round, symmetrical, more yellow, less brown spots and better flavor.

I was told it was obtained at the LSU orchard. I like it obviously, I propagated 35 more from the 2 trees I had. But one more mystery fig, I'm not sure the origin of.

A picture of LSU Gold 80 grams (left) LSU Holliers 50-60 grams (two in middle) LSU Golden Celeste 95 grams (right).

[AscPete]

Thanks for sharing the info, sounds like a keeper...

There were several common fig cultivars at the LSU Orchard including Kadota, which has a much "richer" flavor and is a larger size than Champagne, but that's only a guess. My largest Champagne breba was only ~ 45 grams...

[AscPete]

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j247/alauve/20130713_090234_zpsedc8d881.jpg~original

Alma is another cultivar that's grown at the LSU Orchard...

[Wisner]

After this season I will be able to report more on Improved Celeste and O'Rourke. I have O"Rourke from the LSU orchard and an Improved Celeste from Mr Roy Young's Nursery in Abbeville La. He was selling Improved Celeste that he produced from his orchard since before LSU released O"Rourke.

[AscPete]

Thanks for sharing your info, looking forward to your reports...

Yes, the anecdotal info is that LSU Improved Celeste (ICON) was in limited circulation from the 1960's on, after the original seedling selections were made, while the O'Rourke was only selected and named around 2007...

[AscPete]

Celeste and the Celeste Hybrids have similar Flavor profiles but usually vary in taste with mild seed crunch;

Celeste;
Very sweet, Light Brown Sugar flavor reminiscent of Palm Dates...

Improved Celeste (ICON);
Moderately Sweet, Raw Cane Sugar or Light Cane Syrup taste...

O'Rourke;
Mildly sweet, Light Maple Syrup flavor...

Champagne;
Moderately sweet, but not as sweet as "Heirloom" Celeste. A Honey Flavor profile, mildly "Rich and Creamy"...

[mountainfigs]

Improved Celeste and O'Rourke are night and day different. Photos here of Improved Celeste and O'Rourke, with RDB and Mt Etna.

[AscPete]

Thanks for sharing the photos...

[don_sanders]

Hmm, is it just me or do the pics in post #1 of Improved Celeste look like post #9's O'Rourke (smaller and more slender/elongated)?
While post #1's O'Rourke looks like #9's Improved Celeste (larger and more squat).

I believe both agree that Improved Celeste is 1-3 lobe while O'Rourke is 3-5 lobe usually.

Interesting to see the color variation as well even in fairly similar zones.

[mountainfigs]

Optical illusions, basically. With both firsthand, these are very different cultivars (O'Rourke and Improved Celeste). The fig that O'Rourke is most similar to is Hunt. The fig that Improved Celeste is most similar too is LSU Tiger. Ronde de Bordeaux and the Mt Etnas more closely resemble each other than do IC and O'Rourke. (I prefer Improved Celeste and Tiger to O'Rourke and Hunt, by far - tastier, more precocious, and more visually appealing, in my view.)

[Wisner]

Thanks for sharing your info, looking forward to your reports...

Yes, the anecdotal info is that LSU Improved Celeste (ICON) was in limited circulation from the 1960's on, after the original seedling selections were made, while the O'Rourke was only selected and named around 2007...

What is with the wink? Are you saying I don't know what I am talking about?

[AscPete]

I was agreeing with you 100%
And was simply stating the fact that the Celeste Hybrids have been circulating around for over 40 years!!!

They were Crossbred in 1950's, Selected in Early 1960's before the Fig Research Program was terminated in the Late1960's and only selected for release in 2007,

https://www.lsu.edu/departments/horticulture/new_figs.pdf

[AscPete]

Hmm, is it just me or do the pics in post #1 of Improved Celeste look like post #9's O'Rourke (smaller and more slender/elongated)?
While post #1's O'Rourke looks like #9's Improved Celeste (larger and more squat).

The LSU Improved Celeste and O'Rourke figs actually do not look much alike (up close) because the skin texture is quite different.



LSU Improved Celeste;
Ribbed exterior, small open but blocked eyes / osteoles, with color ranging from tan to brown to purple blushed depending on temperature, amount of sunlight and moisture during ripening. They are pyriform with long necks and stems.



O'Rourke;
Smooth exterior with Red stripes when ripening, small tight eyes / osteoles similar to Heirloom Celeste's, with color ranging from light brown to purple blushed also dependent on temperature, amount of sunlight and moisture during ripening. They are also pyriform with medium to long necks and stems.



The O'Rourke is at 12 o'clock and the others are 3 different "Heirloom" Celeste

[Wisner]

I was agreeing with you 100%
And was simply stating the fact that the Celeste Hybrids have been circulating around for over 40 years!!!

They were Crossbred in 1950's, Selected in Early 1960's before the Fig Research Program was terminated in the Late1960's and only selected for release in 2007,
https://www.lsu.edu/departments/hort...e/new_figs.pdf

Cool beans. I wasn't sure.

[AscPete]

https://www.lsu.edu/departments/hort...e/new_figs.pdf
The mature leaves of O'Rourke are palmate with five to seven distinct lobes. The primary lobe is spatulate and has an oak leaf in appearance. The margin of the leaf on the basal lobes of O'Rourke is slightly toothed.

Potted O'Rourke fig tree 5 gallon with over 100 "stagnant" figs.



Typical O'Rourke 5 lobed leaf and breba fig (July)



Typical 5 lobed O'Rourke leaf and breba figs (late July)



Typical 5 lobed O'Rourke leaf and main crop fig late season (October)



Typical heirloom Celeste fig close up.



Typical heirloom Celeste figs at 5 o'clock thru 10 o'clock showing skin color variations

[Fygmalion]

Would LOVE some of those figs right now!

[AscPete]

Fygmalion ,
Me too...

[ThaiFigs]

Just to add to the confusion

[AscPete]

My Blue Celeste was simply a regular / heirloom Celeste cultivar with a slightly darker skin, no difference in taste or growth habits except for being less cold hardy than the other Celeste cultivars...

It looked exactly like the "Typical heirloom Celeste fig closeup" photo above.

[ThaiFigs]

My pics are all from the same Blue Celeste plant. Seem very close to your heirloom Celeste except for the stronger contrasting colors on the interior. Don't have any other Celestes to compare to, so can't say how similar in flavor they may be. I'd rate this one an 8 on a 1 to 10 flavor scale. Not bad for the first figs of a new plant!

[AscPete]

ThaiFigs ,

Thanks for sharing the photos and info...

Yes, the leaves of your Blue Celeste resemble those of typical regular / heirloom Celeste. The figs of Celeste are very variable, they will have darker or lighter interiors and exteriors due to temperatures when ripening, but the majority have pink - strawberry colored pulp. Your zone and location are probably contributing to the differences. I prefer berry flavored or stronger flavored figs, but Celeste is one of my favorites for snacking when outside doing gardening chores, I would only rate it a 7 of 10...

[wellingtonbill]

As a LSU fig collector, this thread was/is most interesting. Thank you all for the pictures and comparisons. I agree with some that the LSU Tiger is one of the best tasting of the LSU's I have tried thus far. I will get to try LSU Saint Gabriel breba in the early summer. Let us keep this LSU comparison's thread alive, OK?

[AscPete]

OK!

Thanks for commenting.
Keeping threads alive is up to the members, they can share their photos and experiences with these (LSU) figs or start new topics for other cultivars.

BTW, LSU Tiger also has my current vote for the best tasting LSU Fig cultivar (between these three, Gold and Purple).

[Ikibahd]

Two years later, is LSU Tiger still your pick for best tasting LSU fig? I have read that Purple gets better with age - have you had the opportunity to try a more mature LSU purple next to a Tiger?

[drewk]

I have never tried the LSU Tiger, but got a baby tree going this year of it so I can't use it as a comparison - that being said I really enjoy the LSU Scott's Black. How would you stack it up against the Tiger?

[AscPete]

drewk ,
Scotts Black is often compared to VdB or other Bordeaux type cultivars in the "Bordeaux Flavor Group", but IMO its in the Dark Berry Flavor Group, it simply has never developed the rich complex flavors of a Bordeaux Group fig, at my location, but does have a partially closed eye when ripe.

[CliffH]

I would agree. LSU Tiger is probably my favorite LSU fig. Others are good, or have good years. But the LSU Tiger is consistently in the top 1 or 2 of the LSU varieties.

[minth]

Improved Celeste and O'Rourke are night and day different. Photos here of Improved Celeste and O'Rourke, with RDB and Mt Etna.

waaaaah, why is Improved Celeste so darn gorgeous and unattainable in EU?