Attention All Members... Ideas Needed for Funding Ourfigs.com Forum Community

[AscPete]

As many of you know this forum Community is hosted on a Paid Web hosting site, there are fees that have to be paid for rent and maintenance. Recently there have been several unsolicited auctions to benefit the forum, which is to be commended, but IMO there should be a better way which would be inclusive of all members.

I think that holding Raffles at specific points in the year where anyone that would like to contribute "Donations" (of plants and cuttings) could do so, and everyone could "Purchase" as many "Tickets" as they want to help defray the forum expenses.

The simple format a "Community Raffle and Bake Sale" with specific fixed raffle dates (~ 4 per year?) to accommodate the different zones. The plant material "Donations" by individual members could be shipped directly from the donors to the "winners" by USPS priority mail, currently 30 or more cuttings can be sent in a Fixed Rate Priority Envelope for less than $7.00 (shipping costs could be reimbursed).

I would like some feedback and comments about the current auctions, raffle Idea and any other possible means of securing the required funds to keep the website growing.

Thanks.

[COGardener]

The auctions have been nice and have raised a good amount of money to assist Will with the costs of the forum. Yet as Pete has mentioned, they rapidly grow to numbers that many members can't, won't or are not aloud to pay leaving the "Big Fish" as the winners every time. I do like the idea of having scheduled raffles, members that wish to donate to the raffles should contact the "raffle administrator" to added to the raffle schedule. The Schedule keeps everything running smooth and keeps us from trying to run on top of each other. If there are enough people to fill a monthly slot or even multiple monthly slots, then why not. Some raffles could be ran for a day, others for a couple days and other for a week.

With the raffle, you are spending money if you win or not, just keep in mind that having the forum makes all winners! Most of us shutter at spending $150.00 on a tree or a dozen cutting, yet a $5.00 ticket or two is doable. 30 $5.00 tickets is still $150.00! Once the close date for the raffle arrives, the "Raffle Administrator" picks the wining number, by hat, through the numbers in the air and grab one, personally, I like the on line random number generators. Just input a low and high number and run it.... BAAM you have a winner.

The raffle also gives people on a budget a chance to win Cultivars that they may not be able to get otherwise, it only takes one to win.

Someone also suggested adding a donate button, it could be linked right to Will's PayPal account, it would be an easy way to send five or so unsolicited dollars by name or anonymously.

[AscPete]

Thanks for commenting and sharing your thoughts... Those are some of the reasons why I like the raffle.

[AmericanFigLover]

Could we add a donation button to the page?

[AscPete]

It may be possible and can be discussed.

[Taverna78]

There already donation button

[rusty hooks]

A combination of raffles and auctions would generate both...high dollar items and even the playing field for all. I only question if 4 times would be enough to defray the costs of the increasing size of the forum and the bandwidth to accomidate it. We might try and plan ahead to what is seen on the horizon rather than constantly playing catch up with funding.

a small section, "board" if you will, might be established to offer equipment/contributions to the cause/timers/etc.

Just as long as the funding doesn't become the focus.

[AscPete]

I agree that funding raising should never be a "Primary" focus of the forum and the amount of time that will be devoted to it may be much less than any of us may think.

[dkirtexas]

How much money are we talking about, Monthly, Annual?

[AscPete]

I've no idea, but that's why we're having a discussion on the open forum.

[WillsC]

It is pushing $1000 a year if paid monthly, like $750 a year if paid annually.

[Harborseal]

25 cents per post

[Sarahkt]

Haha, this forum would go radio-silent so quickly.

In the same manner as it's one thing to spend hundreds on an iPhone, but spend $0.99 on an app?! Forget it! Rather have the phone but use it for nothing. Out of principle.

[WillsC]

Lol yep no membership fee....not doing it.

[Sarahkt]

Just to clarify, I was referring to Bob's $0.25/post joke, not the membership fee. Though I prefer to raise the funds in a different way than a membership fee.

Membership fees are like the gym fees -- I'm afraid that while I wouldn't mind paying the money, then I wouldn't participate (actually I probably would).

I also think it might discourage newcomers from becoming "active members" if they have to ante up money first. Instead, we might have more silent readers/lurkers. Which is fine because it's a great resource just for learning... I enjoyed reading many posts on F4F before I ever got around to writing a word on it myself. Still, the auctions/raffles/possibly even a donation button would be more fun and less obtrusive. Especially if the auctions were scheduled at regular but not perpetual intervals so folks don't get tired. Just my two cents.

[mountainfigs]

Rather than managing and bird-dogging raffles and auctions to primarily support the website, would it be simpler to try to rely mainly on "sustainers" and/or an annual month-long fundraising page?

Members would maintain their free membership and they could select an option to be a "sustainer": one who pays an annual or semi-annual amount of their choosing, which is automatically deducted from a credit card number that they enter. $36 annually would be $3 per month, etc, or whatever dollar level they choose to contribute as a sustainer. Of course, such a system would also require managing, of an automated shopping cart type setup, but could that not be outsourced, and/or might it not be more reliable and less complex and labor intensive than organizing and overseeing raffles and auctions with the various participants, winners, suppliers, materials, shipping, and reimbursements? all of which could go on anyway on a volunteer basis.

Additionally, or otherwise, a simple annual appeal could be posted during a strategic or high traffic month to solicit one time donations via Paypal.

What are the approximate dollar levels that probably need to be reached each year going forward? Any estimates?

[mountainfigs]

No, it's not a membership fee. I did not suggest that, nor would I. Membership should always remain free for a lot of reasons. I wrote "could select an option to be a 'sustainer'..." not "must select".... No problem to clarify it.

So, I suggested sustainer donations, automated. Sustainer dollars are surely one of the most simple and most reliable ways to maintain steady funding for an organization. Sustainer systems can be set-up to be entirely anonymous, so that no one who is a member feels pressured to be a sustainer too.

Also, a sustainer program would in no way interfere with fundraising raffles and auctions but would merely provide predictable revenue in the background.

Quality organizations that need money sometimes forget that if you just ask, for a reasonable amount in a reasonable fashion, you shall receive. (Of course, you have to ask the right people, in the right places! Whole lotta members, already here.)

A sustainer program would require no visible fundraising beyond it being an option to click on in a member's profile at any time and/or at time of initial membership sign up. We might be surprised. Enough money might come in to start a public orchard somewhere. (Or it might not.)

Frankly, regarding reducing the amount of "Fund Raising" on the forum: raffling and auctioning and fixed price selling, whether regularly scheduled or not, seem certain to keep prominent that manner of fund raising and could easily lead to members, whether new or old, with extra fig material on hand to at any point offering to do a special auction, raffle, or fixed price sale. I'm not opposed to that fundraising nor to its frequent visibility. I think it's a generous thing to do. But making it be the main way that money is raised could lead to near constant fundraising visibility, which is said to concern some.

All that said, whether or not the forum adopts a voluntary "sustainer" revenue generating mechanism makes no difference to me. It's merely what I've seen work elsewhere, efficiently and unobtrusively, and only a suggestion.

I would be more than happy to contribute cuttings to auctions and raffles, especially if regularly scheduled. However, personally I don't want to win anything willy-nilly and unpredictably as raffles go. I would rather simply have my donation deducted automatically on a regular basis to support the forum rather than having to remember to click on Paypal, or whatever, four times per year for a raffle that also supports the forum. But that's just me. I can appreciate the benefits for the forum in the excitement of raffles and the random distribution of cuttings and plants.

[WillsC]

Tony,

Understand what you are saying and I have seen other websites where people will have supporter under their user name but still to me it feels like I am rattling a can on a street corner. Greatly prefer a system where people of their own free will decided to help out no shoving involved.

[mountainfigs]

I understand, Wills. However, there is no "shoving" involved with sustainers, especially if done anonymously and with consideration. In my experience, in these situations, people not only want to give, and on a regular basis, they are glad to be able to participate and be involved. And those who choose not to be sustainers are perfectly free to not opt in, no visibility no pressure.

On the other hand, raffles and auctions require visibility and extra effort. Without simplest ways to fund an organization, you run the risk of putting out members who then feel compelled, even forced, to go the extra mile the roundabout way, with all the extra labor and materials that that may involve. Sustainership is not charity, though I suppose some can see it that way. Most sustainers don't give something and get nothing. They are participating in the very organization they are helping support. To many it is a joy and pleasure; to others it can be a relief; for some it is a source of pride.

In my view, CSA, Community Supported Agriculture, works in a somewhat similar manner to sustainerships. Some members here are very familiar with CSAs. It's not exactly the same as sustainership, but if you think of sustainers as putting in some money upfront and then receiving the harvest of a great website and all that that entails - community, education, enjoyment - it's somewhat analogous, the way members of CSA give the farmer money before the season so that the farmer may use that money to plant and grow the crop to be delivered through months of harvest.

But the far more simple reality is that people are glad to be able to participate financially as they can or as they wish, for a lot of varied reasons, just as they of their complete free will participate in many other ways. Sustainerships don't need to be solicited, though limited solicitation makes sense, and many people would appreciate it. At their most basic, sustainerships can simply be a sign-up and profile option.

I go on at length here because I've seen organizations go without, or go to great effort to raise a few bucks, amounts they've subsequently dwarfed merely by simply asking those who are already involved if they wish to contribute directly of their own free will.

[WillsC]

I also do not like the idea of paid memberships plus the auctions or raffles add excitement and that is also a plus. Was a bit negative on Pete's suggestion but it does seem people like the idea.

[AscPete]

One advantage of this forum community is that we can agree to disagree

[WillsC]

Yep and is why I set it up the way I did.....so all voices are heard and sometimes I will get out voted and I am ok with that.

[Sarahkt]

I confess I have no idea what the annual cost of a growing forum like this amounts to. Is it something that wouldn't be easily offset by a regular (annual, quarterly?) auction and/or donations? I think the auctions are a lot of fun, and am definitely enjoying the rewards! I like the idea of a donation button. If funds get low, maybe call attention to it? I'm happy to contribute in an ongoing fashion, and I know I would click on a donation button if there was one.

I also agree that a persistent focus on funding, mandatory or otherwise, would detract from the overall point and enjoyment of the forum. For example, I love NPR, and contribute to them regularly, but usually switch to something else during their fundraising messaging which was very frequent last year.

[Sarahkt]

I enjoy the fun of the auctions on the forum, less so on eBay. If it's something I really want, the "buy it now" does make it short and sweet. What about having some of both, so there's something for everyone?

[AscPete]

The idea is to try and get an agreement on the simplest most unobtrusive method, by whatever means.

[Sarahkt]

Thanks, Pete. Yep, it looks like we're all on the same page.

[Rafaelissimmo]

I would be happy to contribute cuttings to a raffle, I would also support a modest membership fee, say $1. With 163 active members it would be more than enough to cover the costs.

[AscPete]

Thanks for commenting.
I would have said $5.00 each, since the odds are good that not all 163 would contribute.

[Taverna78]

Read comment sì

[AscPete]

Thanks for commenting.

[Taverna78]

Cugino. Look you messages.

[Chrisk]

I have no problem sending my fair share through PayPal directly to Wills. If every member sends $5 we should be covered for a couple of years as far as fees go. Now we have to consider all the individual effort that goes into the forum just to keep things running smooth. Wills and everyone who is involved in this are doing a wonderful job and a service to all of us and deserve and need our help. Any raffles, cutting auctions ect could be a welcome bonus! A donation button sounds like a great idea also. Let's deside on this and just make it happen! Thanks for reading.

[AscPete]

Thanks for commenting and sharing your thoughts.
Hopefully there will be a resolution from the discussions in this topic.

[fitzski]

I like the idea of auctions, raffles and possibly a donate button or yearly fundraiser if the first two do not raise enough to cover the cost of the site.

Maybe some fixed cost auctions would be a good idea too.

[AscPete]

Thanks for commenting.
Are the "fixed cost auctions" the same as Sales like "Bake Sales"?

[fitzski]

Yes, I guess a fixed cost auction is like a bake sale. Kind of like what Kelby did this week. When folks have extras they would post with a price attached. It's not as fun as a raffle but it might be a way for folks to share extras while supporting the forum.

[jmaler]

I was a member of a motorcycle forum a number of years. It had a sub forum for "sell it here" items. On the honor system 10% of proceeds went to to the forum owner. There was also a means to make donations. When major expenditures were incurred such as a new hard drive the admin ask for donations to cover the costs. The system seemed to work pretty well.

Once he ask for $5000 for a new server. It was raised rather quickly.

I am a member of dave's garden forum. Some features are free while other features cost $5 a month or some discounted amount for an annual payment. I think to post to some forums or post photos you need to be a paying member.

[rusty hooks]

Hear, Hear.....Great idea on the percentage for classifieds...and direct donations....

[AscPete]

Thanks for commenting and sharing your thoughts.

Personally I'm averse to creating a "Market Place" in the forum community. There are established market places on the web and enough links to those vendors. IMO, The Community should be about trading and sharing cuttings and plant material. Benefit Auctions and Raffles are simply ideas to incentivize donations for funding of the site...

[Sarahkt]

I really like this discussion, and all the points being raised.

One devil's advocate-type concern does come to mind, which I think has been hinted at already. Wills and/or any one small subset shouldn't have to shoulder the costs alone, but this whole thing does raise the social pressure to donate money. When it comes to sharing plants or cuttings, sometimes people will simply want to give away extras or sell them for profit, and there's no reason why they shouldn't be recompensed for the time and effort they put into the item. If they already participated in a fund-raising event they might not feel that pressure strongly, but if not they may feel a social pressure to donate the money when they otherwise wouldn't, and/or be more inclined to sell elsewhere like on eBay or on the F4F so as to avoid that feeling. This could be a very strong pressure especially early on as there's a great flurry to raise funds, and it might be an uncomfortable or even guilty feeling if someone wants to do otherwise.

Others have already suggested ways which might render this concern moot -- if there was some measure added to compartmentalize those activities (creating a subforum for fundraising sales (maybe where some % goes to the forum and some is kept by the seller on the honor system as Jerry mentioned), doing fundraising at a set time each year, etc.). Those are all possible ways to help this great forum continue without making people feel guilty or selfish if they want to occasionally sell something for their own profit or just offer plants/material for free. For example, I'd recently started a thread just to give away my extra plants and cuttings for the cost of shipping, to save space and help spread around the generosity so often given to me while I'm setting up my own collection. Auctioning up did occur to me, but there have already been two great auctions in play and didn't want to make life too complicated or re-auction the same cuttings twice. Now that I'm aware of just how much it costs to keep the forum running, I find myself thinking I could have helped raise more money by auctioning them off, but too much of that can kill the fun of the entire thing. But yeah, I do wonder if this pressure might lower open gift-giving/sales on the forum. It might change things in that way. Though maybe the opposite will happen and exchanges go up instead, who knows. The cost isn't so high that a few more auctions like the ones that Phil, Mike, and Kelby just hosted wouldn't take care of things.

Anyway, I'm probably making way too big of a deal about this! Maybe nothing like this would happen. To be clear, I'm totally for any method to spread the costs around, just thought this might be a point worth bringing up.

[AscPete]

IMO, creating a "Donate Button" and temporary Sticky Topic at fixed points in the year most members will probably share in funding the costs of the forum community. As mentioned in post #14 comment #2, The forum community should be about Sharing, not "Selling". Between members of the community cuttings and plants should be shared, selling can be done on established websites, market places or in private, the exception of course is the occasional public request (by a potential buyer) for specific cultivars.

[Sarahkt]

Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest anything negative about the generosity of the forum members. It's a great community. I'm sure the point I raised will be moot and there will be an optimal solution.

[AscPete]

Don't be.... I appreciate you sharing your thoughts and opinions.
Its all part of the discussion.

[AscPete]

Some of the Ideas Mentioned...

1. A combination of fixed events, Raffles and Auctions that are announced and accompanied with related temporary Sticky Topics with a "Donate Button" to simplify contributing with all proceeds to donations.

2. Establishment of donations from "Sustaining Members".

3. Creating a market place for selling plants and cuttings with a percentage of profits to donations.

4. Charging 25 cents per Post.

[newnandawg]

#1 and #3 I think are good as is. #2 I think would be a good direction as long as there is
no "Sustaining Member" attached to their name/forum handle. #4 NOT.

[COGardener]

I'm sure many people will both contribute raffle/auction items as well as gift and trade. It's the beauty of this community, we all try to contribute and we don't judge.

[Whiterk]

Add the dreaded pay per click advertisements. Everyone hates them but they generate income.

[eboone]

NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
I like being able to access the forum from my phone. Ads slow that down!

[cis4elk]

No adds...please.

[AmericanFigLover]

I'm a part of many aquarium forums and there is a section where members can sell and trade while a small percent goes to the site. I don't know if was already mentioned.

[AscPete]

Thanks for commenting and sharing your though. It was mentioned in an earlier post, the "market place", there seems to be several forums that them as part of the general forum.

[HarveyC]

I suggest the raffle method. It worked very well for the fundraising effort I did for Bruno (the final second drawing is tomorrow night, so you still have time to buy a ticket, LOL). From the fig community I had 24 people participate with $1,060 collected with donations ranging from $10 to $200. I think having raffles quarterly might be a little too often, maybe twice a year like January and July?

Rafed has done the Superbowl drawings and those have worked well but they have a limit on the number of spots available. Getting a modest number of items donated would be nice, don't need a lot of prices to make it fun. I won 2 out of 4 spots on Rafed's Superbowl pool and that was too much for me so I gave Gloria one of my choices. I was happy for her to win and think most folks like that also.

The auctions are good but if it's not something I'm after or I don't want to outbid a friend, that makes it less effective.

[AscPete]

Thanks for commenting and sharing your thoughts and info.
I agree that four (4) times may be too many due to our involved members, but I've always admired Rafed's raffles, for the amount of excitement that they generated on the forum.

[jmaler]

When this site was set up, what were the expectations of the admin for funding?

As we all know nothing in free.

It is well known that with any forum a small percentage of membership is active and consumes most if not all the resources.

I'm curious as to how figs4fun funds their site.

[jmaler]

Pete, i know it's a tough situation to be in. A big part of the reason i come to this site is for the photos. I would gladly pay a few bucks a month for the privilege of seeing the photos....all else free. Also I would partake in raffles and auctions, etc.

[AscPete]

A Membership Fee was actually never an option as WillsC stated in post #6, which is also why I started this topic to get some ideas on how to help keep this community funded and growing in future.

[jmaler]

After giving the membership fees more thought it makes sense not to have it because folks could go to figs4fun for posts with photos. Many photos on this site are also posted on figs4fun site as well as folks often posts on both sites. So back to your raffel idea.

[Harborseal]

if you think of sustainers as putting in some money upfront and then receiving the harvest of a great website and all that that entails - community, education, enjoyment - it's somewhat analogous, the way members of CSA give the farmer money before the season so that the farmer may use that money to plant and grow the crop to be delivered through months of harvest.

I would gladly make a small contribution each month as long as I don't have to eat any kale or lima beans. If you make a donate button please include options for 1 time or ongoing.

I think a combination of a donate button (with options for 1 time or ongoing) and some raffles or auctions would fund the forum and finance the phytosanitary certificate for a group buy of Baud & Pons figs.

I'm glad no one took the 0.25 cents per post seriously. Hopefully it was a bad enough idea to be funny.

[AscPete]

I like Lima beans!
Thanks for your input on the button.

The Phyto certificate sounds like an idea for the community, I would also add commissioning tissue cultures of UCD Black Madeira and UCD Ischia Black from a wholesaler.

[mountainfigs]

No deal: you must eat your kale. Lima beans optional due to cooking time. Actually if you pick kale young enough it can taste just like fresh broccoli. That said, romaine lettuce is far tastier, and supposedly significantly more nutritious.

[Harborseal]

Pete, you can have all of my lima beans. In fact, I'll trade you lima beans for fig cuttings any time you want.

[sal]

All great ideas so far.

I don't think there is anything wrong with having something that goes under your name after you donate money. A lot of forums do that for the amount of posts and for levels of contributions. Also a donate money via paypal button would work great..

3. Creating a market place for selling plants and cuttings with a percentage of profits to donations.

This is a great idea.. I also would rather see the money go to the forum instead of ebay.

Also Harvey mentioned raffles .. I think you could generate a lot more money and more would participate in raffles instead of the auctions.. Or do both..

[AscPete]

Thanks for commenting and sharing your thoughts, I also like the Raffles.

[Hershell]

Could we pay to get the comment under our name removed. ( I almost hope you don't get a sprinkle ) and I do like being able to sell on the forum for less than it would probably bring on eBay but staying in the community although like Harvey I don't like bidding against friends but just part of the fun some times. I do think buying raffle tickets is a good idea as much as I hate to have to agree with Pete.

[AscPete]

Thanks for commenting and sharing your ideas.
Maybe members can pay for custom captions
I just remembered that I don't like Raffles, so you can run with it

[WillsC]

I was against the idea but you guys have warmed me to the idea of the raffle. Will look in to the donate button though I hated the idea.

[AscPete]

The other idea that has several advocates is "Creating a market place for selling plants and cuttings with a percentage of profits to donations". I'm not sure what that entails, but it should be looked into.

[fitzski]

With a donate button, is there anyway to track how much has been given for the current year? I know sites like GoFundMe have a visual tracker that shows how much was given against the goal.