Miticide Forbid 4F advice

[Taverna78]

Ciao everyone,
Okay I think I already have answer but maybe someone know tis person.

I take Pete advice and buy Forbid 4F liquid to help my trees come back normal again. (A patent won't hurt trees regardless it's problem so why not try) so I buy from Ebay 1 oz bottle for $37 eBay list number is
161756056840
Seller did state 4f no come in pictures bottle but didn't say came in a single booze shot bottle with photo copy instruction taped on side. The seal obvious broke off and bottle and obvious not full and I believe these bottle are 1.5 oz. but they claim to own website floramite.com
I say I think I known you answers but I just want to double check as I not sure to spray something like this on my trees without really knowing.

[Rewton]

If they represented the product as new and it arrived with the seal broken I would ask the seller for my money back. Sounds like a frustrating situation.

[Taverna78]

It was described as new but stated is was not in original bottle that was pictured in the posting. I not chance it. Just go with my gut and take the loss and buy from someone else

[smatthew]

The smallest container of Forbid 4F that the manufacturer makes is 8oz. Costs about $200-250. Any container smaller than that is repackaged. I'm sure the seller drank the booze from the airplane sized bottle, and then refilled it with Forbid. Go ahead and use it.

[Rewton]

I see, in that case I would go ahead and use it too. Do you see mites? If so, you will know very soon whether it worked.

[rusty hooks]

I wouldn't touch that stuff with somebody elses 10 foot pole....

you have no idea what it is in the container....or what was in the container before

never...NEVER...spray with something you don't know :

1. what it is
2. what the dose is of the unknown substance
3. something without an unbroken seal or cover
4. without knowing plant restrictions with the chemical involved

I look at it this way....If I were to spray with something and it were to kill my prized plant...how would I feel after the plant had dies....

It's happened to me before .......to an entire field ....to which I was told by a salesman..."it's ok"

[hoosierbanana]

The seller has good feedback, and the products he sells work within the feedback timeframe. So somebody would have complained if their mites didn't die.

To be cautious you can try a few trees first. Choose some that are actively growing so you can observe the spots stop appearing on the leaves, it took about a week for me to notice. I chose to chance it and did spray a newly planted orchard last year without testing, because to me this is an emergency.

For what its worth that is what Forbid looks like, a very opaque white liquid. It is labeled for non-bearing fruit trees, but...

The restrictions are red tape, the same chemical is labeled for fruits under a different name by the same company, at a slightly different concentration. You can read about post harvest and restricted entry intervals for various crops and activities. http://www.agrireseau.qc.ca/referenc...tes/forbid.pdf

Both are labeled caution which is the lowest level signal word, lower than Avid which is "warning". I think I remember Fabio saying that he is not expecting a crop this year anyway so spraying his non-bearing trees is not restricted at all.

[Taverna78]

When you bought the "real"4F where you buy? Seller?

[Taverna78]

Hooks that was my original thinking. Now I need to find it sealed for sale in smaller size. Hypothetically speaking everybody mixed into my collection garden lies Maltese falcon, Italian 258, black Maderia,Galicia Negra, Joly tiger and a true double fruit dual color Dall"Osso. Now flip the script and place yourself in my shoes. Would you just say "eh spray it (even with the questions Hook presented? Or would you want to know you got EXACTLY what you paid for ?"

Just a thought

[eboone]

Mike - test it on the plant I sent you. If it hurts the plant I can send you cuttings in the fall. Or I can try to airlayer a branch, there is time left this season for that to work

[Taverna78]

Ed. Is very kind of you but I rather not take chance. I will just but sealed one. I paid $37 for it. If anyone wants it you may have to test on you trees. My trees not that bad that can't wait one more week

[lilfiggy]

NO SPRAY get your money back from EBAY damaged shipment. be safe No body likes to see a grown man cry.

[hoosierbanana]

Can anyone tell me what they think might be in the bottle other than Forbid 4f that can harm a tree at 1ml/gal? That is an extremely low rate, even if it was a powerful herbicide like 2,4-D there would probably not be enough to even hurt a tree. Speak up. And where were all of you a week ago when he ordered? Any of you have suggestions that will not set him back a whole week while the mites pass FMV from tree to tree?

Fabio, it is fine. Don't waste your money and don't waste your tree's time.

I could tell you where I got mine from... but maybe they just are selling the real Forbid at first and now they sell thinned paint that people trust them? Maybe they will send nothing and you will wait 3 weeks while your trees get sick.

[Taverna78]

Ok Brent. I have all but one of my " hypothetically speaking " trees in my garden. I can't say which one but if I use tis on my trees (knowing you tell me won't hurt them) and they die you will replace my tree at the full price I pay for them? Is about $2000.00usd including the rest I did not mention.

[hoosierbanana]

Sorry I could not help, next time don't ask.

[Taverna78]

Aye! Tis not nice! I say earlier make you in my place ?! I say I have many expense tree and then tree with no moneys value but E 'speciale per me dai miei amici! You tell me buy.. I read you and Pete argue and I say I believe you to put tis spray in my trees. So sì I listen to you you no sell me tis some other do.. And I not trust tis is true . To have open bottle with unknown liquid to spread on my garden for $37 dollars I would rather make sure. And buy seal supplement. La gente ha mentito su Ebay e, a volte molto difficile fidarsi della gente su questo sito. Questo è tanto più o meno .... So you no take offense capise ! Is no good tell me no ask you for you help. I ask you because you seem
To know your farming. Which you do! But not what someone beside you sell me! Okay??

[hoosierbanana]

I can only share my experience you know. This year about 10% of the trees that were infested are badly disfigured by FMV. About another 75% caught mild FMV and still grow OK some needed severe pruning though, the rest have not shown it but it may still cause problems with cuttings. If you are getting ripped off it is not some toxic substance that will kill your trees, it is paint. I can't be responsible if you measure wrong and don't notice, or burn them with fertilizer, overwater, whatever. Nobody helped me buddy, remember that.

[Taverna78]

Tis why I ask you help! My apologies I just see tis message. I no want even paint on my trees. You no understand. I Grow fig all my life with out tis issue. Now I have others baby fico and now problem. No matter what if I spend my hard earn money on supplement that is said from you to be very effective I will do so.but if I have $1000.00 dinner and if I order glass of blanco vino someone tells me is best vino in world to go with tis dinner and is purple I start to wonder if I get what I pay for. Capise ? I order blanco but get Rosso and I not known difference because neither me or you known what I have. I not sure if I define correctly but more or less you say buy product and I will buy and still use ! But I want it sealed and me to be confort to apply to my NEW and only trees besides what I almost lose life of fico last year. Grazie for you help.

Buon A Notte Amico

[hoosierbanana]

To me time is the most important thing. I sprayed within hours of getting my little bottle, I took the day off of work. Here is the place I got mine, if it helps, it will look like the picture but still not sealed. I also apologize, it has been tough to see my trees suffer and I just want you to kill those mites, you do not need to learn how bad it can be from first hand experience.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/sanfrancisco...1&_ipg=&_from=

[WillsC]

If it was me I would use what you got on one tree.....and if ok go for it on the rest. The dosage is so low I don't see the harm and like he said if it was something bad the feedback would reflect that. My 2 cents.

[Taverna78]

I understand. I guess I will try then. How i measure so small amount ? I no have ?

[WillsC]

I use a syringe without the needle. Where you are from they may be harder to get but here most feed stores sell them even with the needle.

[Taverna78]

Ok I will get baby feeder syringe from Walgreen. Good idea.

Brent you say after you apply you see different good change in a week. This change is on new leaf with no mosaic or existing leaf mosaic go away?

[Darkman]

What is the shelf life properly stored for this?

[don_sanders]

Especially after diluting...Can you mix a gallon or two and then store it to use as needed?

[don_sanders]

Brent - Did you just spray the tops and bottoms of leaves once with the 1ml/gallon dose? Or do you think that followup applications may be needed?

Thanks.

[hoosierbanana]

One spray cleared up the spots on the new leaves of all of the plants, then a few at the end of the row showed them again and I found live mites. I was running out of spray and did not get complete coverage because I tried to stretch it out. I am pretty sure I sprayed Avid to clear that up since I was following up on the container plants I sprayed with it about 2 weeks before.

[Taverna78]

Brent say is good to get every part of tree very well even tho the leaf will absorb 4F it work faster to spray both side and anywhere a mite may be.

[Sarahkt]

I have a question about the dosage. Anyone know if the lower end of the recommended range works just as effectively here? Or do the other two miticides work just as well with lower toxicity? This miticide looks particularly formidable, so I'd like to minimize the poisons being sprayed onto my family's edibles. It does have the advantage of going through the leaf to kill mites on the other side, so being able to spray just the top sides of the leaves makes it less painful.

I'm looking into Forbid too since I'm pretty sure I have mites on two trees. Forbid 4F is at 480 g/L stock concentration and this product is suggested for non-edibles or at least fruit trees that are NOT bearing fruit at the time. I was leery of this because my figs ARE bearing fruit, but then saw Brent's comment that the company sells the same chemical for treating edibles too (at least 3-7 days before crop harvests, if I read the datasheet correctly) at a lower concentration of 240 g/L. This one is called Forbid 240 SC. Not sure what the rest of the formulation is, if it differs from Forbid 4F to make it otherwise safer.

This one recommends a dilution of 30-50 mL/100 L water, so since the 4F is 2X stronger, should get it at 15-25 mL/100 L, which if you take the middle of the range is 20 mL/100 L, or 200 uL per L water (~757 uL per gallon). The higher end of the range would be 938 uL/gal. My fruit is a lot further away from ripening than 3-7 days, so I figure it should be fine, but am wondering if using a lower dilution works just as well.

[Taverna78]

Oddly enough few of my new trees and existing trees are make fruits. Not many on the new trees but my Bi39 sucker from few years ago is making many figs and is one of my worst mosaic tree. Normaluy I not pic fig unto about September or even October. So if I use 4f in next week or two I can still wash eat fruit at harvest time or no good until next year?

[Sarahkt]

The Forbid 240 SC, yes, it looks that way. I don't know if the rest of its formulation is any different than Forbid 4F, if it's safer (because other than the 4F being 2X as concentrated, why is one recommended for non-edibles/landscaping only but the other one is fine for currently fruit-bearing greenhouse vegetables/fruits? Formulation differences or just marketing strategy so people will buy both?

Maybe I should just get the Forbid 240 SC to be on the safe side (if the smaller sample sizes are available on eBay/Amazon). And wash the figs well before eating!

[don_sanders]

According to the technical data sheet on Forbid 240 SC, the pre-harvest interval is 3 days for tomato, cucumber, pepper, egg plant. Since the MSDS on both Forbid 240 SC and Forbid 4F only list Spiromesifen and Glycerine, they shouldn't contain any other known toxins. As mentioned 4F is twice as concentrated as SC.

I'd say 4F should be considered safe after 3 days if used at half strength and I can't see why it would be a problem after months with full strength.

As with all chemicals, don't inhale it, wear gloves, and cover your skin while applying and keep it away from any fish ponds.

Spiromesifen is stable in storage for 2 years.

I did see where it was mentioned to use mixed spray after 24 hours but I think that is just a standard recommendation. In neutral water, spiromesifen is stable in the presence of sunlight (photolysis) and
has a half-life of 86.6 days

http://files.tlhort.com/labels/22089-forbid_240sc_insecticidemiticide_-_spiromesifen.pdf

http://files.tlhort.com/msds_labels/22089-forbid_240sc_jan_12.pdf

http://www.carrolltreeservice.com/files/Labels_and_MSDS/Forbid_4F.pdf

http://www.backedbybayer.com/~/media/BackedByBayer/msds/en/Forbid_4_F.ashx

http://www.cdpr.ca.gov/docs/registration/ais/publicreports/5858.pdf