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  • Leaves shows problem ???

    Hi Members,
    My neighbor shown me his young fig trees yesterday and asked me why the leaves became unusal as per photos attached. I questioned his if he put too many fertilizer and he said not sure. Do any members know why this happened so I can tell him accordingly.
    Thanks ..................
    You may only view thumbnails in this gallery. This gallery has 3 photos.

  • #2
    I don't know but my first thought looking at that would be mites.

    You could check the under side of the leaves with a little hand held microscope or look for tiny webbing.

    Spider mites are big enough that you could see them if you shake the leaves over some plastic like the bottom of a milk carton.
    Don - OH Zone 6a Wish list: Zaffiro, Moro de Caneva, Nerucciolo d'Elba, Bordissot Blanca Negra

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    • #3
      Hi Don: Thanks for your respond : How to remove those mites do you know about ?

      Comment


      • #4
        Hoosierbanana
        Forbid 4F😁😉
        Zone 5 Chicago IL Wish list:
        1) Rest peacfully Amico Bello Buddy 👼🏼.
        2) This weeks ebay auctions.

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        • Sarahkt
          Sarahkt commented
          Editing a comment
          Yep, Forbid 4F worked for me too. Had mites around the same time Mike did, and hoosierbanana dispensed mite-fighting words of wisdom. It's expensive but you can buy a small aliquot from eBay and a little goes a long way.

      • #5
        Its possible that the leaf mosaic was caused by Fig Mites and spraying with Miticide is a good prophylactic, but the cause may be FMV with the treatment being increasing "readily available nutrients" and or pH.

        I typically do not have fig mites but have had several trees shown similar symptoms when they were up potted to an acidic potting mix the new leaves grew out mottled, it may have caused nutrient deficiency, stressed the trees and resulted in the visible Leaf Mosaic symptoms. Increasing the pH and providing a balanced water soluble (macro and micro nutrients), easily, readily absorbed fertilizer was the treatment.

        FMV will often exihibit itself as deformed and or Mosaic leaves, increasing the "readily available nutrients" (easily absorbed by the plant roots) has usually reduced or eliminated the mosaic symptoms in the new leaves. the attached photos are of FMV infected trees that exhibited Leaf Mosaic symptoms without the presence of mites, the only "treatment" was adding Gypsum and regular feeding with dilute Miracle-Gro All Purpose fertilizer @ 2 teaspoons / Gallon, Miracle-Gro Tomato fertilizer could also be used without the added Gypsum.
        You may only view thumbnails in this gallery. This gallery has 4 photos.
        Pete R - Hudson Valley, NY - zone 5b

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        • rusty hooks
          rusty hooks commented
          Editing a comment
          I had exactly the same results this year Pete....on several varieties

        • hoosierbanana
          hoosierbanana commented
          Editing a comment
          Those are fig mite spots Pete... I am a little concerned about how your story about these have changed. Anyway, the truth is out there and although some people may be fooled most will be like me and figure it out eventually.

        • AscPete
          AscPete commented
          Editing a comment
          Brent,
          The spots are from FMV infection not mites....

      • #6
        Hello Pacifica, I wish you and your friend the best of luck with this problem. I watched a video filmed in the PNW , that described these symptoms as FMV, and also some university info pages. So I know they can survive the winter there, these intelligent people are used to seeing them every year so they do not suspect a mite infestation (or perhaps they are not familiar with growing fig in general) and do not find one as a result. But here on the east coast, where I grew figs for many years without ever noticing symptoms like this (typical FMV symptoms are different) they alarmed me as a new problem. I understand how people who have always had these symptoms would not think anything is wrong though, especially since researchers have gotten it wrong, and many growers receive mites in their first year if they get plants and cuttings from many sources.

        Specifically though, for you, you know it is fig mites because the older leaves are healthy, FMV does not suddenly appear on healthy branches or jump from one plant to another unless the fig mite is present. FMV typically shows when axillary buds break in the spring and usually decreases as the plant grows, while mites are the opposite.

        Nutrient deficiencies always appear symmetrical on leaves, while pest and disease damage is random or aymmetrical. Nutrient deficiencies are associated with the structures of the leaf, for example the veins, the spaces between the veins, the edges, the tips... But what you have is random spotting that is increasing with the mite population.
        Last edited by hoosierbanana; 09-13-2015, 02:45 PM.
        .

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        • #7
          Hi All : My neighbor said that he showed the photos to one of the local farm nursery for idea and the guy told him could be due to overwatered because he did water the young fig trees very morning (also spray the leaves with hose as well) My neighbor said that he did not see any spider mites over the leaves (both surface and underneath) Do you agree with this or not meaning overweighted problem ???

          If due to FMV problem, he said to buy either Hoosierbanana and Forbid 4F are so expensive. Can he leave this FMV for this year (leaves will be dropped during dormant) and by the time till next spring, new fig leaves will grow again hopefully without FMV accordingly. Does this make sense ?

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          • #8
            I respect both hoosierbanana and ascpete's opinions so I treated for mites and try to keep my fertilization in check. Seems to be working well.

            Forbid 4F is supposed to be a good miticide. It is very expensive but you only need a very small amount. You can get some on eBay. See below for a link to some for $15. You might be able to find some even cheaper.

            If it's FMV or mites, it probably wouldn't just go away on it's own. Proper management and fertilization can minimize the FMV symptoms as Pete mentions but will never cure it. Mites will most likely over winter in the pots if you protect the plants and produce the same symptoms next year.

            As far as over watering, I would probably bottom water the plant. Put the pot in a saucer and put about 1/4" of water in it. After the water in the saucer is gone, wait a day, and then water again. You could also check the soil with your fingers to see if the top is dry. Normally, if the leaves wilt and the soil is dry, you suited too long to water. If the leaves wilt and the soil is moist, you've been over watering.

            Good luck.

            http://m.ebay.com/itm/Free-Forbid-4F...460?nav=SEARCH
            Don - OH Zone 6a Wish list: Zaffiro, Moro de Caneva, Nerucciolo d'Elba, Bordissot Blanca Negra

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            • #9
              Hi hoosierbanana & Don : Thank you so much for your valuable responds and they are very helpful to me and my neighbor.

              Comment


              • #10
                Pacifica,
                Its also possible that the "problem" was caused by Rust which is a fungus, http://www.ourfigs.com/forum/figs-ho...on-and-control the air borne spores "grow" on wet leaves.
                Pete R - Hudson Valley, NY - zone 5b

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                • #11
                  Hi Pete : Thanks for your information and links. Have mentioned to my neighbor not to spray water on leaves.

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                  • #12
                    This might help a little also
                    You may only view thumbnails in this gallery. This gallery has 1 photos.
                    Scott - Colorado Springs, CO - Zone 4/5 (Depending on the year) - Elevation 6266ft

                    “Though the problems of the world are increasingly complex, the solutions remain embarrassingly simple.” – Bill Mollison

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                    • #13
                      Hi Scott: Thanks for the photo. It really help to understand more about the problem for our plants.

                      Comment


                      • #14
                        It is rather interesting. Just like our bodies, nutrition is important.
                        Scott - Colorado Springs, CO - Zone 4/5 (Depending on the year) - Elevation 6266ft

                        “Though the problems of the world are increasingly complex, the solutions remain embarrassingly simple.” – Bill Mollison

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                        • #15
                          Yes, you are right !

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                          • #16
                            hoosierbanana commented
                            Today, 09:09 AM

                            Those are fig mite spots Pete... I am a little concerned about how your story about these have changed. Anyway, the truth is out there and although some people may be fooled most will be like me and figure it out eventually
                            Brent,
                            The Spots are from Fig Leaf Mosaic Disease (FMD) caused by Fig Mosaic Virus (FMV), there are no Fig Mites present.

                            The trees that were depicted in post #5 were grown the entire season next to "healthy" trees which have never shown any symptoms of leaf mosaic or infestation. The Beers Black is in a row of fig trees that are ~ 4 feet apart with branches that overlap a Celeste EL and an Unknown BryantDark on either side. None of the trees were sprayed with insecticide or fungicide this season with the exception of Coffee grounds sprinkled as Ant deterrent.

                            The attached close up photos are of the same leaf depicted in a Topic from early this season. The leaf necrotic spots (brown dead spots) were caused by FMV and halted by increasing the readily available nutrients (fertigation), they were not caused by Rust or Fig Mites. The leaf would have remained on the tree til frost, but was picked for the closeups.

                            My initial conclusion about FMV were posted here, http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox....?highlight=fmv and have never changed. The only change was my conclusion about Rust and my observations about 2 different types, there is only one and the second "type" that was observed was simply necrotic spots that were caused by FMD. My current conclusions are posted here, http://www.ourfigs.com/forum/figs-ho...on-and-control

                            Its entirely possible for Fig Mites to be transported in plants and cuttings from locations where there are colonies and become infested, but that has not been the case in my orchard.
                            You may only view thumbnails in this gallery. This gallery has 10 photos.
                            Pete R - Hudson Valley, NY - zone 5b

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                            • #17
                              Pete, around the time you were making your initial, and apparently final, conclusions about this specific leaf symptom you were not looking for fig mites. You have since changed your story to include "looking for mites" during that time, but have never shared the exact method that you used to determine that these microscopic mites are/were not present.

                              10/5/12
                              I have access to electron microscopes and more in a large medical research facility, researchers and technicians trained to use them, but this is my hobby, not a career. I am not planning an extended scientific investigation. If the question is still being asked next season I will drop off leaves at Cornell Agricultural Extension for testing.
                              4/23/15
                              I've not observed any infestation of Eriophyid mites in the past, but as you know I was not looking for them.
                              7/15/15
                              I have never seen any fig mites and have been looking for the past 3 years.
                              9/13/15
                              I typically do not have fig mites
                              I was under the impression that you were spraying your trees prophylactically for rust, with neem oil, was I mistaken? The leaves look shiny like they have been sprayed with a soap or oil...

                              Of course if chlorotic spotting symptoms were in fact caused by rust there would be ample evidence, it would have been identified by growers in the south a long, long, long..... time ago. They could walk out at any time and take a picture or 2 to settle this argument, but there is no evidence there to photograph. You told me at some point that you were keeping the spots (which you still claim were caused by rust) at bay by spraying your plants with sulphur, neem oil and or perhaps copper soap. If you are no longer spraying how do you explain an admitted lack of what you identified as rust symptoms in the past?

                              I can't prove that any pictures on this page are fig mite spots, just like nobody else can prove they are FMV or a fungal infection. But the reason I am pushing is because there are other forum members who are not open to the suggestion of fig mites being on their plants and choose instead to use more fertilizer to "treat the FMV" as you suggest. Maybe your 2 plants do have an atypical FMV symptom Pete, it certainly does resemble fig mite spots though, you must admit that... Other people end up with symptoms on every single plant and think they are doing a bad job fertilizing because the spots keep coming back, not very funny to me.
                              So I ask, is a little transient (would have resolved itself with normal care) nutrient deficiency worth mentioning if it is identical to fig mite spots?






                              .

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                              • AscPete
                                AscPete commented
                                Editing a comment
                                The 10/5/12 quote is out of context and was about fig Leaf Rust not Fig Mites, I still have access to the microscopes and technicians, but it is not needed to see the Rust fruiting bodies...

                                The 4/23/15 and 7/15/15 quotes are also taken out of context, they refer to your initial posts as my reason for looking for them starting in the 2013 season and I have still not found any or have had symptoms directly caused by Fig Mites.

                                You are not mistaken, I spray Quarantined Newly Purchased Fig Trees as a prophylactic for Rust and Mites.
                                The leaf shine is all natural for that cultivar and the Bordeaux types.

                                I spray the garden and orchard only if there is an out break of rust, but this year its been dry for the past 1 1/2 months with no major outbreaks or incidents, so spraying was not required. The original observations was spots on young thin leaves that were subject to rust inoculation due to their proximity to Rust fruiting bodies and spores (they were directly below the large potted trees with Rust inoculated leaves). My young trees are all grown in a separate 'Nursery' area so the problem has not been repeated since.

                                The spots on the leaves that I posted had nothing directly to do with Fig Mites although the trees have FMV which may have been originally transmitted to the mother trees by fig mites. Chlorotic spotting and russeting can be an indication of Fig Mites feeding on fig leaves which may be similar to mites feeding on leaves, but I can claim that the leaves that I've posted are not caused by mites because I've not treated them with any insecticides or fungicides, I've increased nutrients through fertigation and almost eliminated the leaf mosaic on the new leaves, while increasing the health of the diseased leaves without any spread of Mosaic Disease or Fig Mites to any adjacent plants and leaves.

                            • #18
                              Pete, my initial post about fig mites was made one year ago... Not 2013 (2 years ago), and not 3 years ago. You are off on the third quote by a factor of 3, you have been a part of the online fig community for 3 years now but still have not once described how you look for fig mites. In my initial post (one year ago) you only wanted to talk about fertilizer and rust, big surprise there. Would have been a good time to share your expertise on microscopes.
                              .

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                              • AscPete
                                AscPete commented
                                Editing a comment
                                You are correct, my apologies. The Fig Mites were posted and discussed by another F4F menber in 2013, http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox....post1277466382

                              • hoosierbanana
                                hoosierbanana commented
                                Editing a comment
                                That 2013 thread is unrelated Pete, you referred to a specific event that involved you and me and fig mites and leaf spots which took place one year ago as your reason to be on the look out.

                                Dan Foster associated eriophyid mites with an overall bronzing on the leaf undersurface, you and I had no reason to think our plants were ever affected by any type of eriophyid mite. In fact he may have had fig leaf mites, not fig bud mites like I suspected initially last year. It would be nice to talk about that but I don't think this is the time or the place.

                              • AscPete
                                AscPete commented
                                Editing a comment
                                Dan posted on Fig Mites living in a 'Colder Zone' which set off alarms about them transmitting infection(s) from diseased plants to existing healthy plants.

                            • #19
                              Pacifica,
                              I apologize for hijacking your Topic.


                              Brent,
                              Our approach to FMD are decidedly different, your main criteria is Fig Mites while mine is Nutrition. I've only grown figs for 4 seasons compared to your decade but my experiences, healthy fig trees and successful fig harvests are proving my conviction. I will continue to check for fig mites with my 40x magnifying lens and will post photos of my fig mites if I find any.
                              Pete R - Hudson Valley, NY - zone 5b

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                              • #20
                                I am here in fresno and tried dealing with FMV symptoms with an increased fertilizer schedule. However i noticed an increase in fmv in the new growth. I am sure it's mites now and ordered some Miticide to spray.

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                                • #21
                                  In the event of mites, does one spray the tree in its entirety? Is the soil, pot and surrounding area included? What about other near by vegetation?

                                  Scott - Colorado Springs, CO - Zone 4/5 (Depending on the year) - Elevation 6266ft

                                  “Though the problems of the world are increasingly complex, the solutions remain embarrassingly simple.” – Bill Mollison

                                  Comment


                                  • hoosierbanana
                                    hoosierbanana commented
                                    Editing a comment
                                    Follow the label Scott.

                                • #22
                                  Hi Pete : No problem............

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                                  • #23
                                    Scott,
                                    I don't spray for fig mites (the eriophyid mite, Aceria fici Cotte) in my garden but have sprayed for Rust. All fig tree surfaces ares sprayed, top and underside of leaves and branches, over spray will coat most horizontal surfaces and nerby plants. I only spray newly purchased plants for fig mites so there are no surrounding plants to consider, since the fig mites do not survive and overwinter in my zone..

                                    UC Davis and UC Riverside have done academic research into figs and fig culture for the fig industry, their publications have some descriptions of FMV and Fig Mites, which have been controlled with Horticultural Sulfur,
                                    http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/r261400111.html
                                    http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/r261100611.html
                                    http://ucanr.edu/repositoryfiles/ca1101p12-66858.pdf

                                    Also attached are some Photos of Leaf Mosaic from Oregon State University, http://oregonstate.edu/dept/nurspest...saic_virus.htm
                                    Pete R - Hudson Valley, NY - zone 5b

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                                    • #24
                                      Lol, Pete.
                                      .

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                                      • #25
                                        Attached are photos of leaf with visible FMD its a young tree acquired late this season and is growing in the fig nursery. Its a Gillette and has not been treated with any insecticides or fungicides. The lower leaves have visible Rust and the newer leaves are growing out with spots. The plant was inspected with a 10X, 20X and 40X magnifying lens then the leaf was inspected and photographed with a 60X microscope no mites were found on the plant or the leaves...
                                        You may only view thumbnails in this gallery. This gallery has 10 photos.
                                        Pete R - Hudson Valley, NY - zone 5b

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