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  • Rooting without humidity.

    If tis subject has been posted before I look but no see really...
    But quickly.
    I'm going to start about 40-50 cutting today in shoebox smag moss method. If I was to dip entire cutting in wax minus the spot where I plan to score and dip it CloneX once root show and is ready to cup is it then safe to cup and under light without any humidity dome or bin?
    Also if this is okay to do without humidity chamber for cupped cutting and a bud or leaf start on cutting while rooting in moss should I pinch or remove the leaf so it will but and leaf out on its on when is comfortable to do so without being in humid?
    Last edited by Kelby; 01-07-2016, 12:03 PM.
    Zone 5 Chicago IL Wish list:
    1) Rest peacfully Amico Bello Buddy 👼🏼.
    2) This weeks ebay auctions.

  • #2
    Mike,

    Tim Clymer at Three Fold Farm has been starting his cuttings without humidity chambers in his basement for the past couple years with 90+% success rate. This is one of the methods I'm going to try this year. I did something similar last year with reasonably good success but I'm going to follow his method more closely this year.

    http://www.threefoldfarm.org/blog/si...ig-propagation

    http://www.ourfigs.com/forum/figs-ho...m-winter-14-15

    I'm not sure if there's any difference between the parafilm and wax that you want to use but I've only used the parafilm.

    Although the parafilm is supposed to "breathe", i'm not sure you'd get that with the wax.
    Last edited by fitzski; 11-29-2015, 08:34 AM.
    Kevin (Eastern MA - Zone 5b/6a)

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    • #3
      Looks great! Maybe I try but no where by me carry parafilm
      Zone 5 Chicago IL Wish list:
      1) Rest peacfully Amico Bello Buddy 👼🏼.
      2) This weeks ebay auctions.

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      • #4
        IMO, the "entire cutting" should not be dipped in wax because it has to hydrate, absorb moisture to start growing and callusing for the rooting process, sealing the top exposed cut end is all that is necessary to reduce / prevent infection and slow desiccation. Burying most of the cutting when cupped in a Direct Plant Method can also accomplish the same goal as pre-rooting in bag or shoebox and reduce drying out. An example of the Direct Plant Method, http://www.threefoldfarm.org/blog/si...ig-propagation

        When using rooting hormone and keeping the temperatures above 72F. I've found that the roots usually develop withing 21 days and most cuttings can be up potted (cupped) without humidity domes. If the room is very dry, below 50% RH misting a few times each day may be necessary. The few that don't develop enough roots can be covered with individual humidity domes, upside down clear cups with holes in the top, until more roots develop.

        I've successfully pinched leaves on cupped growing cuttings but not while pre-rooting in Long Fibered Sphagnum Moss. Also do not pinch growing tips because the cutting may then produce multiple buds at the pinched node, which may slow top growth. Good Luck.
        Pete R - Hudson Valley, NY - zone 5b

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        • #5
          Perfect. I'll give it a shot. Just wanna try something different tis year. Last year I lost some favorites because I did no acclimate from humidity to ambient air correctly.
          Zone 5 Chicago IL Wish list:
          1) Rest peacfully Amico Bello Buddy 👼🏼.
          2) This weeks ebay auctions.

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        • #6
          I'll be watching this thread with interest.

          Charlie on 4f4 is do this at this time as well. I will also watch his thread.

          http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox....pid=1289994648
          Jerry, Canyon Lake TX 8b

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          • #7
            So no smag moss. Just wrap in parafilm dip in hormone and plant?? Or moss first then wrap in film and plant?
            Zone 5 Chicago IL Wish list:
            1) Rest peacfully Amico Bello Buddy 👼🏼.
            2) This weeks ebay auctions.

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            • #8
              The Long Fibered Sphagnum Moss is not needed in the Direct Plant Methods, just good, clean, fast draining potting mix. "Just wrap in parafilm dip in hormone and plant" in a pre-watered potting mix, to prevent possible water logging for the initial rooting period.

              The attached article of fig propagation tests performed with and without humidity domes (pavilions) concludes that the domes help to maintain initial humidity and heat around the cuttings which increases bud and root development.
              http://kasetsartjournal.ku.ac.th/kuj...1022467268.pdf
              Comparison between treatments with and without the pavilions (humidity domes) among cultivars suggested that cuttings placed in pavilions increased the number of emerged buds and roots earlier than those without pavilions. The results indicated that using plastic pavilion increased the temperature that promotes early callus formation of buds and roots in the propagation of fig cutting in cool area.
              Pete R - Hudson Valley, NY - zone 5b

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              • #9
                So even tho is risk of the negatives of the humidity it is better in a sense for the actual cutting to root and bud well vs parafilm and direct rooting. I think I will just stick to how I always do with shoe box moss and humidity 😉
                Zone 5 Chicago IL Wish list:
                1) Rest peacfully Amico Bello Buddy 👼🏼.
                2) This weeks ebay auctions.

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                • #10
                  Interesting reading! I think I'll try both methods this winter.
                  Bryant...Franklin County, VA...Zone 7a. Wish List: a 32 hour day....more sleep

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                  • #11
                    I never use humidity domes but I do bury the whole thing except the very top in perlite. I'm trying waxing both ends this year and for the green cuttings that haven't lignified at all I'm waxing the whole cutting. We'll see what happens
                    Bob C. KC, MO Zone 6a. Wanted: Martineca Rimada, Galicia Negra, Fioroni Ruvo, De La Reina - Pons, Tauro, BFF, Sefrawi, Sbayi, Mavra Sika , Fillaciano Bianco, Corynth, Souadi, Acciano Purple, LSU Tiger, LSU Red, Cajun Gold, BB-10 any great tasting fig

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                    • #12
                      I was going to pose the same question, thanks for asking Mike. I plan on using a cloner for half of my cuttings and also using coco coir as prerooting method and was also hoping to avoid humidity dome. I picked up a cheap roll of parafilm from ebay to wrap the top half's of my cuttings in the cloner. Was thinking about wrapping the ones I do in coir after I transition them to cups as well in parafilm. Really want to avoid the transitioning from humidity domes, humidity in house is probably 30%.

                      Hopefully more advice will be given
                      May the Figs be with you!
                      ​​​​​

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                      • #13
                        I was thinking about getting a small humidifier to run around my pants to see if it makes any difference. My house humidity was getting around 40%.
                        Don - OH Zone 6a Wish list: Zaffiro, Moro de Caneva, Nerucciolo d'Elba, Bordissot Blanca Negra, Rubado

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                        • Taverna78
                          Taverna78 commented
                          Editing a comment
                          Don. Amico... Use iron for pants. Is much quicker...😜

                        • don_sanders
                          don_sanders commented
                          Editing a comment
                          Hehe...plants

                      • #14
                        Well tis it... I just start rooting 60 cutting the way WillsC teach me. Long fiber smag moss. 2inch on bottom squeeze very well... Cuttings dip in CloneX... Lay nice and then 2more inch SM. Keep I'm
                        Area of 70-80F + degree area or use heat mat.
                        I had boiler room at farm but now is no so warm
                        Because we make bathroom with fart fan and is no so warm. But smell good!😷So bins in my laundry room with furnace and furnace humidifier. We'll see if no good in 2 week I apply heat mat. Just no want to cook cuttings. I obtain some rarer ones from my time be here in WORLDS GREATEST SITE OURFIG.COM !
                        I will let member known when is ready and thriving! Then we talk to tis.

                        Ciaoooo
                        Last edited by Taverna78; 11-30-2015, 05:03 AM.
                        Zone 5 Chicago IL Wish list:
                        1) Rest peacfully Amico Bello Buddy 👼🏼.
                        2) This weeks ebay auctions.

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                        • #15
                          Well I may of screwed up. I thought I remember being told to "score" the portion or scrape bark some to show cambein layer of cutting I dip into horemone... So I did that and I guess I see how goes. I did however do tis last year and did okay so maybe we see. Although I still try to understand tis one part... Now cuttings are top only waxed and bottom dip horemone. Between well rung long fiber orchid smag moss. Now the point of the humidity is to help promote roots and buds sì?
                          So if while in shoebox smag moss is make roots. I known not too many but some. Roots like bottom heat sì? So if when these cutting are ready to put into cups they will no be okey if I cup and no add cover or humidity? The only downside I think I see is humidity helps rooting and budding otherwise is slower growth rate for root and bud in normal climate without so much humid. If I am incorrect please tell me. But if that is only downside being only in November in my zone I am probably better off they take longer to grow and bud out because of limited indoor grow space (at least space my wife no kill me for having trees all over) worst case I make more space.

                          Or how about if humidity is truly big part to play then I can line up cups inside big Rubbermaid with heat mat under and keep lid on it and then slowly acclimate them all at one time with the lid vs each have cup lid dome?
                          Zone 5 Chicago IL Wish list:
                          1) Rest peacfully Amico Bello Buddy 👼🏼.
                          2) This weeks ebay auctions.

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                          • AscPete
                            AscPete commented
                            Editing a comment
                            Humidity and temperature for rooting dormant fig cuttings has the same role as moisture and temperature for starting seeds, its basically the same process. The humidity/moisture is needed to hydrate the cuttings/seeds and the warm temperature is required for cell growth. maintaining the humidity/moisture and temperature for the initial rooting/seed starting stage is whats needed.

                            Roots like a maintained potting mix temperature of 70F - 80F, adding bottom heat works if the temperature is controlled and maintained, it often leads to cooking cuttings/seeds without a temperature controller.

                        • #16
                          Okay so Pete, as of tis moment I have all my cuttings in shoe box waxed top only and rooting end in hormone. They boxes are covered with plastic Saran top then original lid snapped shut on top in laundry room with a constant 70F+ degree ambient temp. (It does get humid but don't think matters when the actual cuttings are in their own humidity in SM. Now... 3 weeks go by... They've started rooting and time to put into cups is it then too late to wrap the rooted cutting in parafilm tape before I put them into the cups with potting mix and place into Rubbermaid bin with lid off and bottoms heat with a thermostat controlled seeding heat mat set to 70+ degree?
                          Or your saying once the cutting has developed roots in the rooting bin once roots are established only potting mix tempature is needed.
                          My apologies if I'm not understanding completely but I just want to be sure because I lose some belle rooted cuttings last year during the humidity/ambient acclimation process.
                          Zone 5 Chicago IL Wish list:
                          1) Rest peacfully Amico Bello Buddy 👼🏼.
                          2) This weeks ebay auctions.

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                          • #17
                            With your proposed Pre-Rooting Method
                            stage 1 Prep Cuttings, wax ends, score, treat cuttings.
                            stage 2 Pre-Rooting, in LFS Moss @ 70ºF plus ambient temp.
                            stage 3 Cup Rooted Cuttings, wrap in Parafilm, plant in containers and continue rooting @ 70ºF plus temp bottom heat.
                            stage 4 Grow out Rooted Cuttings....

                            There should be no reason why your stage #3 shouldn't work, but I've never tried using Parafilm when up potting rooted cuttings, I just plant them as deep as possible in the potting mix.

                            Once roots develop (stage 2), I usually cup the cuttings (stage 3) and maintain ambient room temperature @ 75ºF for at least a few weeks (a few times with humidity domes if ambient humidity is very low, for an extra 2 weeks to gain additional faster root development.).

                            The attached quote and document is referring to commercial propagation of softwood stem cuttings, but also works for dormant fig cuttings.
                            http://www.flor.hrt.msu.edu/assets/U...esplanning.pdf
                            Manage medium and air temperature.
                            Temperature influences the rates of callus formation and root and shoot development. Ideally, the temperature of the medium should be maintained slightly higher (5°F-8°F) than the air so that callus and root growth occur faster than shoot growth. To accomplish this, bottom heating is required. Desirable propagation temperatures are 73°F-77°F for the medium and 68°F-73°F for the air. If bottom heat is not available, the air temperature should be increased to 77°F-80°F so that medium temperature is adequately high.
                            Pete R - Hudson Valley, NY - zone 5b

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                            • #18
                              Perfecto...
                              Between what you tell me and what I learn from WillsC I think I am now confident to try tis. Grazie for you help!
                              Zone 5 Chicago IL Wish list:
                              1) Rest peacfully Amico Bello Buddy 👼🏼.
                              2) This weeks ebay auctions.

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                              • #19
                                Mike be sure to let us know how this goes, especially the step where you wrap parafilm tightly around rooted cuttings. I have wrapped unrooted cuttings with 1 inch parafilm and for me it would definitely be a challenge to get rooted cuttings wrapped without damage to the roots. Be careful.
                                Jerry, Canyon Lake TX 8b

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                                • #20
                                  I will do so
                                  Zone 5 Chicago IL Wish list:
                                  1) Rest peacfully Amico Bello Buddy 👼🏼.
                                  2) This weeks ebay auctions.

                                  Comment


                                  • #21
                                    One major point to keep in mind is that Pre-Rooting (stage #2) will always require "Humidity" or moisture for hydrating the dormant cuttings, regardless or which rooting method is used.

                                    Stage #3, cupped rooted cuttings is when the extra humidity/moisture around the "exposed" cutting (above the soil line) can and should be reduced to ambient Relative Humidity ASAP.
                                    Pete R - Hudson Valley, NY - zone 5b

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                                    • #22
                                      Originally posted by AscPete View Post
                                      One major point to keep in mind is that Pre-Rooting (stage #2) will always require "Humidity" or moisture for hydrating the dormant cuttings, regardless or which rooting method is used.

                                      Stage #3, cupped rooted cuttings is when the extra humidity/moisture around the "exposed" cutting (above the soil line) can and should be reduced to ambient Relative Humidity ASAP.
                                      Pete,

                                      Would u recommend the cutting be in parafilm during step#2 on the upper half of cutting. Not sure if this will induce mold or rot. Or do you think doing parafilm between step 2 and 3 is best, obviously there is more care needed since roots are exposed when wrapping cutting.
                                      May the Figs be with you!
                                      ​​​​​

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                                      • AscPete
                                        AscPete commented
                                        Editing a comment
                                        I cannot recommend the use of Parafilm because I've never purchased and used it. My only experience was on a few purchased cuttings that were shipped with a Parafilm wrap on the cut ends.

                                        IMO, the wrapping in the above Stage #2 would only be at the top 'exposed' end to reduce desiccation.

                                        In step / stage #1 Prep Cuttings I usually seal the top of cuttings with melted wax or pruning sealer in preparation for step / stage #2, no additional top treatment has usually been necessary in the rooting stages.

                                    • #23
                                      Okay I will hopefully root all of them with no buds or leaf then can be put directly in ambient temps!?
                                      Zone 5 Chicago IL Wish list:
                                      1) Rest peacfully Amico Bello Buddy 👼🏼.
                                      2) This weeks ebay auctions.

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                                      • #24
                                        Luckily here in south La we can get away with out the extra humidity, lol. After I move the rooted cuttings to the cup I move them under ther corner of my house where they get plenty of shade and fresh air and after a couple weeks I get them use to sun light then with in a month or so I can have them in full sun with out harm. Good luck with yours!
                                        Ryan- CenLa, zone 8a/b

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                                        • #25
                                          Well tis was fast.... Only 3.5 day and already starting initials.....
                                          You may only view thumbnails in this gallery. This gallery has 1 photos.
                                          Zone 5 Chicago IL Wish list:
                                          1) Rest peacfully Amico Bello Buddy 👼🏼.
                                          2) This weeks ebay auctions.

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                                          • jmaler
                                            jmaler commented
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