Questions about Italian 258

[HarveyC]

I'm curious about Leon's comments about the Prusch connection. I know that Leon did get cuttings from Prusch at one time but Italian 258 is not listed as one of the varieties being grown there. I'm a member of the CRFG chapter that manages that orchard and went over this with a couple of board members and there was some speculation that, perhaps, a tree identified on the map as Italian 253 was actually Italian 258. But I don't believe that the leaves on my Italian 253 are a match for 258, so this has been a mystery. As such, I'm wondering if Leon actually has 258. Also, are the photos at the very top from Leon or Art?

[AscPete]

Harvey,

I've move your question from the Varieties list to the open Forum.

Leon grows an Italian 258 as shown in his Gardenweb pics in the attached link. http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussi...41/todays-pick
and its an old quote attributed to him.

The pictures are Art's

I deleted the reference to Prusch. It can always be put back in if the controversy is resolved.

[FMD]

I just sent Leon an invite to join the forum. He and I have been doing some horse-trading over the past year.

[zone5figger]

Funny, I just did the same!

[Posturedoc]

I thought about addressing this last night when I read that thread, but skipped it to eat dinner with my folks (Korean, Yum!). I'm glad you handled it, Harvey. I can tell you that my IT 253 grows like a weed but the fruit I got from it last year, the first I've had, all two of them, was pretty lousy. They looked nice but were about as bland as my figs ever get. I hope it improves this season or I may trash it, though I'll likely give it one additional year. I've never eaten IT 258, I'd put big money on that fact that they are not the same. The 253 figs are green with some rusty orange and yellow on the sun-facing side. IT 258 doesn't look like that. The shape is different too.

If anybody is interested in doing their own side-by-side comparison, I'd be happy to trade one of my extra 253s for your extra 258. (What a great opportunity!)

The big winner from the IT numbered fig collection for me thus far is IT 395 (IT 320 and 358 have yet to fruit). I got two figs off my 2nd year tree late last year. They were very large and quite tasty, though they ripened so slowly that the area around the osteol was overripe while the stem end could still have used a couple or three days to reach perfection. I'm hoping that's a symptom of a young tree and the fruits will ripen more quickly and evenly in the future. I've got a picture or three from last year and will start a thread on it in the near future.

[HarveyC]

I'm not trying to create controversy here but want to avoid more confusion about this selection.

I bought my first supposed Italian 258 from Vinnie back east. Later I noticed photos from Dennis or someone that showed leaves that didn't have deep lobes like what I had bought. I asked Dennis about it and he shared a photo of the tree at Wolfskill, if I recall correctly, and that tree had leaves without deep lobes. In early 2014 I obtained another Italian 258 from Rui and it also has deep lobes. Last fall I obtained cuttings from Vasile and those starts appear to have correct leaves.

If someone got cuttings from Prusch that they thought was Italian 258, I have some doubts about it being correct. There is a possibility that the tree existed at one time and then died and was replaced with something else so that the map I have wouldn't show it, but I doubt that is the case because no new fig trees had been planted at Prusch for quite a few years until I took 9 trees there last summer to be planted on a volunteer work day by Google employees.

Shouldn't the variety list include some sort of cautionary note if there is some question about it? It seems that to exclude that might lead to misinformation. I'm not saying anything about Art's photos but it would be helpful to know what leaves on his plan look like also since my own experience shows there are some suspect trees being spread around. I already have too much experience with that, as most of you know.

[AscPete]

Harvey C,

The old quote was taken directly from the F4F Varieties pages,
http://figs4fun.com/Var_I_info.html#ITALIAN258

You asked a question and I moved the post to the main forum pages so that it could be addressed...
The discussion hopefully will provide some answers.

IMO, If the information is corrected now, why would there need to be a cautionary note going forward?
The included member pictures and data in the thread should provide the additional documentation for the cultivar.

The Committee working on the Database will of course be making the decisions.

Please keep in mind that this list is only 3 days old...

[WillsC]

Harvey,


The list at f4f is loaded with inaccuracies that they would not fix for reasons I won't get in to. The list here will be ever evolving and we will try to make it as accurate as is possible. For that reason as Pete said there is no reason to post a disclaimer. If the group decides collectively that information is incorrect it will be removed. We encourage the members to let us know about inaccuracies so they can be checked in to as well as omissions.

[HarveyC]

I know of errors at F4F and hope this list is better. I just think that if there is some concern about a particular variety, it should be flagged somehow. Or maybe even a warning that there are some incorrect trees out among the collectors or whatever.

[kubota1]

I258 has single lobed leaves mixed in. My thoughts are it's similar to Genovese Nero. They have similar growth habits, have that rich berry taste filled with nectar, and similar leaf pattern.

[HarveyC]

Thanks, Art, glad you have the correct tree.

[HarveyC]

I wrote to Leon last night and he replied. He got his Italian 258 from Richard Watts who got it directly from Todd Kennedy. Leon also said that Vasile (Herman) got it from him (Leon).

[kubota1]

I have one from Watts and another from a reliable member. They are the same.

[AscPete]

Harvey,
Thanks for the update...

[kubota1]

Harvey, I may have been wrong about the single lobed leaves. I found a picture of one of my I258.

[HarveyC]

Art, that's what I thought they should look like. I get confused about the terminology by some members and I thought some might call that a single lobe with two "thunbs". Anyways, that's what my baby trees from Vasile look like and what Dennis has showed me. I look forward to this fruit!

[WillsC]

Harvey,

We are going to have a committee to discuss the content and decide what is accurate, if you would like to be a member of that group your input would be very welcome. Let me know.

[HarveyC]

Okay, Wills, that's good. I might end up voting most of the time "I don't know". Figs are often pretty darn confusing.