[BrooklynMatty]

Dave - great progress pics, very jealous! When you move those bad boys up to a pot, do you shake off the coir and put them in a different medium or direct up pot?

[Dave]

Hey Matt Yes I shake off as much coir as I could most of the time it all falls off and then I pot them up using Pro-mix HP

[BrooklynMatty]

Awesome, thats something i never saw anyone post about with larger quantities of coir. Thanks Dave!

[BrooklynMatty]

Dave- I went ahead and tried your method on a handful of my cuttings. I couldn't push myself to drench the cups so I sprayed them a few times and will recheck later to see if the condensation is building up. My coir was already hydrated, but It wouldn't drip if I squeezed it. What temp are you keeping yours at?

[Dave]

Baby steps matty it's going to take time to work up your confidence to go with the full blown sprayer method as far as the temperature I am keeping them at roughly 70 degrees with the tote cracked open never fully closed Post some pictures of your progress as time goes on Good Luck Dave

[BrooklynMatty]

I will post updates once i get some progress, hoping my results are as quick as yours!

[Dave]

Here's a few photos of the 2nd phase of my cuttings This is one part I like about the coir you can easily rinse it out of the roots Years ago when I used root riot and Sphagnum moss I couldn't get it out of the roots and it was like a sponge in the potting soil and rotted allot of cuttings after I potted them up I potted these in Pro-mix HP and under the lights they go the next time I water I will use half strength Fox Farm fertilizer

[Harborseal]

Dave, I'm not there so I can't really tell but I'm concerned your pro-mix is a little too wet (from the color) and the plant needs more light - from the color and it has a lanky appearance to me. See what you think.

[Dave]

...

[Dave]

Here's a little update on my cuttings I potted these up a few days ago and they are doing really good I still have some in the tote that are waiting to be potted

[Blackfoot12]

I love coir also. Most of the cuttings I have been succesfull with so far have rooted in coir. I have noticed that some cuttings will have a tendency to mold. At first I thought I had too much water in the coir. So I dried it out pretty good. Same group of cuttings molded. It's the cuttings. If this happens I have had very good success cutting them down to one or two nodes, laying them horizontally and rooting them in sand (inspired by Charlie). Takes a lot of babying though, and there is a bit of technique to it, and it can take an extra week or two.

[Blackfoot12]

Dave: Those trays that you are using. Please tell me what they are?

[Dave]

I bought one of these plant stands off of craigslist and use the trays off of it They are called Perma-nest trays



There very nice hard plastic trays They sell the grates as well as a plastic dome you have to check around they can be crazy priced on one site and dirt cheap on another

Here's a link to show you the different sizes they come in http://growhome.com/Propagation/Tray...s-and-Inserts/

[Blackfoot12]

Thank you for that!

[Harborseal]

Compared to peat moss, does coir wet out much more easily?

Bob, I know that being 45 is old enough first hand.

Well I've found out that people often don't get my jokes and they think I'm being insulting to someone. So I try to flag the funnies without being too blatant.

Both wet easily if you use pleasantly hot water. I'm sorry I didn't mention that earlier. If you can wait to handle it the hotter the water is the faster they'll wet. If you aren't going to wait for it to cool use water that feels like a hot tub. Also a spray works better than a hose sized stream. There are companies that sell adapters that go on your kitchen sink and have hose threads so you can water from there. Laundry room sinks often have hose threads. Or heat a pot of water and pour it on slowly

Also, in an effort to train your eyes, I want to point out that young yellow roots like the ones in the first pictures up top are a sign that the roots aren't getting enough air. When you see that you want to get them out of the plastic right away. It's not because the method's bad but because the roots are trapped against the plastic in the condensation zone. That's why some of us drill holes in the side of our plastic containers. It's not all that important here because there's a lot of space for roots to grow between the cutting and the cup wall. But for those of us who use narrow plastic bags it's a much bigger deal as most of the root can turn yellow and then it's prone to infection.

[Dave]

well i've found out that people often don't get my jokes and they think i'm being insulting to someone. So i try to flag the funnies without being too blatant.

lol I Like Your Jokes Bob................................

[Harborseal]

Either way, it prevents confusion and offense

[COGardener]

Philip J. Fry

Right on!

[Kelby]

My first time using coir right now, so far I'm impressed with how rapidly root initials have formed. In another week or I should be able to move some of the kids out of the shoebox and into small pots.

I think getting the coir squeezed out is really critical. I took my time wringing it out so it feels pretty dry. I also triple rinsed it to avoid any potential salt problems since it was some random brand I found at a hardware store.

[COGardener]

I've been wondering if one of these clothes ringers would work with the coir and save everyone some time.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00OAPW6GM/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1454442965&sr=8-1&pi=SX200_QL40&keywords=clothes+wringer+hand+crank&dpPl=1&dpID=21rpOZS285L&ref=plSrch

[Dave]

Scott I think you would have trouble feeding coir into a wringer LOL this may work if you feel you need to extract more moisture from the coir

[COGardener]

I thought about that as well. .. I have not tried coir yet. ... but I do have a press!! 😃

[BrooklynMatty]

If you guys want, it should cost less than 100 bucks to build a DIY 5 or 10 ton press that you could use. I know someone who did this to crimp ends of conduit

http://www.instructables.com/id/Buil...draulic-Press/

http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-make-a-cider-press-with-a-car-jack/

[Blackfoot12]

Oh, I can see it in my mind. Me building a coir press and my wife asking "What are you building now?" That would be the last straw. Anybody have a large garage (for the figs) and a small room to rent me?

[BrooklynMatty]

Hahaha, im always building things and always getting yelled at. Harborfreight has cheap bottle presses and the rest you can probably find on curbs or on craigslist, tell her its free and one day you might sell it and make a profit....cough cough...collects dust in garage or home office.

[Dave]

OK it's time to separate the "Men From The Boys" I could see you guys are very serious about squeezing out your Coir This is the ultimate Coir Squeezer

[COGardener]

Ok.... you got me! I'll take two please. 😆

[don_sanders]

Haha, nice.

[BrooklynMatty]

Dave - just an update on this method i was also trying out. Its the only method that showed no progress, so i had to switch my cuttings back to a coir bin. Could be the size of the cups i used, not using a humidity bin (since i saw mold forming immediately when doing so), who knows. But i'm sad to say i had to abandon this method, i wish i had the results you did. Maybe next year, i'll retry with smaller cups and do the full spray since controlling moisture in larger cups are harder. Hoping others have luck with this method as well, because Coir does rock!!!

[Dave]

Sorry it didn't work out for you Matty like I said in the beginning What works for one person may not work for another person , just out of curiosity how long were they in the cups for?

[Taverna78]

I second Dave! TRUST ME

[BrooklynMatty]

A little over 3 weeks, I had same unknowns that are going gangbusters in coir bin or coir in bag. I think it was maintaining the humidity and moisture in open cups that were the issue . the other methods started same time and have crazy root growth, so I think next time a smaller cup would be easier to maintain. I pulled them out hoping for some roots, only 2 out of 11 had roots or initials. Like you said, everyone is different.

[DBJohnson]

I am using the coir/cups method as arescue from the failed SM bin/mold fiasco. Have them in humidity bins and on heat. Will keep you updated on how it goes.

[WillsC]

I think the way Herpshell does it works well........get coir wet...mix with dry coir till moisture content is right. Low tech but effective.

[Dave]

Here are some more pictures of " Dave's soggy coir method " LOL Out of the 30 roughly that I started with I potted up about 24 some are all leaved out and others are growing roots and have nice green buds swelling out of the 30 so far I threw away 1 so far



Heres a picture of a few that are still in the tote since then I have added other cuttings but the original are growing nice roots no leaves yet



Heres a picture of my intensive care unit so of the original 30 are showing some ugly signs of FMV not sure if I am going to keep them or mulch them



Heres 2 more totes that I started 2 days ago " and I wasn't going to do any cuttings this winter" I am using the same soggy coir method and if you take note I snuggled right up against the cast iron radiators " they love it "

[Jamie0507]

So that's what FMV looks like? Wow then I'd say almost half or more of my cuttings are showing signs of FMV big time.. Should I be separating them?

Also I just bought a new brand of organic coir I am definitely a fan of "Dave's soggy Coir method", you cant argue with results like you are having! This has been a very informative topic Dave, so glad you started it

[Dave]

I wouldn't be too worried about the FMV allot of times it shows less and less as the tree gets older and stronger you could separate it if you'd like its spread by chewing bugs and pruning shears that aren't sterilized when trimming from one tree to another I'm glad you like the soggy coir method you just have to keep on top of the cuttings opening the tote frequently to let air in is a must and another factor of failure would be the quality of the cuttings dried out cuttings that have been sitting around don't work well with any method Good luck with your cuttings and show some pictures we would love to see them

[Taverna78]

Keep fmv.... No effect fruit and me and Butts working on something😉

[Dave]

True I did have a couple of trees that really struggled with it and didn't produce much fruit and I noticed some trees grow out of it as they grow older time will tell

[DBJohnson]

OK, I think I'm done with coir for this season. Using in the boxes to root cuttings--0% success rate. Backup plan to re-set bagged cuttings--0% success rate. Every cutting I've let touch coir has either molded, rotted, or shriveled up into a cutting mummy to haunt my dreams. Maybe what I got from the hydroponics place is he wrong stuff...it was bagged and pre-moistened...has a good bit of husk fibers that I did my best to sift out. I don't know...just completely not seeing the attraction of this stuff. Sometime this summer I'll get a block and do it that way, but for now, I'm afraid to even throw his stuff out into my garden plot for fear that eitHer the Sahara or the Okeefenokee will break out.....

[Brian M]

The coir should not be pre-moistened. By the bricks at pets co they are about 10.00 for 3 bricks. The stuff works great, just throw it in a bucket and fill it about half way. Let it expand then wring the crap out of it. Do not shove too many cuttings in each box only about 3-4. Do not set on heat pad just leave at room temperature in a dark area. You should attain 80-90% rooting success.

[DBJohnson]

Well, my boxes had 8 of 9 per box and I had the boxes on a heat mat set to 68-72F since my basement was between 50-60F. Definitely will never buy that bagged crap again.

[jmaler]

I am not sure this fits into this conversation or not, but some coir needs to have the salts washed away before using it. At least that is the way it was years ago when I started growing tomatoes in it. The industry may have changed by now.

If the coir is too salty that may explain why some folks are having trouble getting cuttings to root.

[DBJohnson]

Quite possibly. You'd think buying it at a hydroponics place and with it bagged, pre-moistened, and "ready to use" that any excess salt would have been removed. That's what assuming gets you.... Grrrrr....

[Dave]

DB I can't believe you are having such bad luck with coir whats the quality of the cuttings you are starting? I've seen some people trying to root dried out half dead cuttings with no success obviously I'm not saying this described your cuttings I'm just trying to figure out why this is not working for you

[DBJohnson]

I would say 80-85% of the ones I initially started in the coir were really good quality cuttings...pencil thick or larger, with vibrant green cambium showing when scratched. Some even still showed some green highlights on the outer skin. None were dessicated. Since my operation is in the basement and the temp down there was usually between 50-60F, I had the boxes on a heat mat set for 68-72F (thermostat sensor placed under the middle box). The cuttings went in healthy but came out either dessicated like a mummy or covered in mold.

The second set of cuttings were a bit iffy. They had already not rooted in perlite in plastic bags, so I moved them to coir cups as your images on this thread illustrate (including humidity box). Theory behind that was that perhaps the bags didn't have enough moisture. These cuttings were looking a little dryer than when they went into the bags, but all still showed green cambium.

In both cases, the cuttings dessicated or molded within 4-5 days. I salvaged the ones I could and have them in the "life support" tray either 3-cupped or rehydrated/dried/parafilmed/direct potted.

Like I said elsewhere, I'm thinking this may be a salt issue and I'll try this again with coir from a brick later this year. For now, direct potting is my big winner.

[Bluemalibu]

Here recently, it seems that our reoccurring byline seems to be: What Works for Someone Else, May Be a Death Sentence for Your Plants. Just a minor difference in temperature, pH, alkalinity, media coarseness, moisture content, etc, may doom the success of cuttings. For instance, I jumped on the cloner bandwagon, only to rot 31 of 32 expensive cuttings. On the other hand, 15 of 15 fig that I started in coir without a humidity dome have experienced explosive growth.

This is after about a month in the coir with 20% perlite added:







So, keeping that in mind, (YMMV !!!) I'll walk you through the steps that I took with this coir.


I chose a very finely processed coir. (Beats Peat or Down To Earth Fine Pith worked well, and are inexpensive.) And a large granulate perlite.

I then took a step that may solve your possible sodium issue. As a retired cop, I know that a certain percentage of the population cannot resist making the easy buck; no matter who it might hurt. So, I reasoned that anyone in the processing chain of the coir, the collector, the processor, the middle man, or the packager... could give in to temptation and mix un-washed coir product into the mix. I therefore flooded the coir with a huge amount of water and squeezed it dry three times. The finally rinse, I squeezed the life out of the coir. So much so, that when I fluffed it back up, it felt completely dry.

To the washed coir, I added perlite at 8 to 2 proportions.

The cuttings were washed in pretty warm tap-water to rejuvenate them, and sanitized in 10% bleach water before being wrapped in bud grafting tape and inoculated with Clonex hormone and placed into 16 oz clear cups that had been aerated with a soldering gun around the base. The cups were set on a raised grate with a large tub and placed near the wood-burning stove in our home without a lid on it.

The best of luck to you...


Blue

[Sarahkt]

Wow, those look amazing. Very green growth! Did you add any weak fertilizer to the water when you moistened the coir?

[Bluemalibu]

I did not, Sarah. I saw your post that added that into the recipe, and I think that I'll give it a whirl as well... I've questioned how much, if anything, the coir by itself could contribute to the nourishing of the new plants.

[Sarahkt]

I don't know the NPK value of coir, but whatever it is, your plants in no way appear to be malnourished. They must be getting great light too. That Strawberry Verte was a Platonic ideal of what a baby fig tree should be.

I think I got the idea of using dilute MG from a post Pete wrote (ascpete). A little inorganic fertilizer just makes sense for keeping the plant fed so it doesn't have to rely on its own reserves until it can get potted up. I tried it for a few thinner cuttings on the rationale that they had less reserves to draw from, which went great, and now I just use it for all cuttings. Once the roots are established and the tree needs watering since it's on a sunny shelf for weeks, I do feed with a little dilute fish and seaweed food by fertigation about once a week and it keeps the growth strong and more green. So far it's gone well.