Cloner v. Cups, Cloner wins

[Rafaelissimmo]

These are nearly identical cuttings of De La Reina (MP), the first two pics show cutting leafing out nicely in the cloner, and trust me, it has monster roots. The third pic is in a cup of dirty perlite kept in a humidity chamber on a regulated heat mat. The latter is showing only a single, small root in the cup. Both cuttings started the same date. The cuttings in the chamber require daily misting and daily aeration and overall more TLC. The results also take dramatically longer to produce a viable cutting. I will probably be up-potting the cloner cutting in about a week or so. The cup cutting will need at least 3-4 weeks to show more roots, before I can start the process of transitioning the cup to the outside humidity (and then to up-potting). Overall, the amount of work involved is a clear no brainer: cloner wins, cup loses. Of course, the up-potting success rate is higher with a cup. I rarely lose a cutting that comes out of a cup, whereas a cloner cutting can drown or fail at a higher rate. I look forward to trying Pete's method of prewetting the mixture and sealing with saran wrap after I up-pot the cloner cutting to a 1-gal nursery pot.

[Taverna78]

Why you lose cloner rooted cutting when pot? They are used to water growing? Would it be better if you potted it in very air mix and water often?
I don't understand how a tree can root and grown in water perfectly but if us too much water in pot it rot....

[vito12831]

Hello Mike.
I often wonder the same thing.

[Rafaelissimmo]

Michele bello the answer is yes, you can shock the water roots, they are very sensitive they need to transition into potting medium. Very easy to lose the cutting suddenly, and poof, Morto! Do NOT water often.

[Taverna78]

Ooohhhh..... Well maybe I get cup thing down first ahahahaha!

[vito12831]

Hi Rafael.
After seeing your plant last week, I ordered a cloner. Thank you for posting.

[Taverna78]

Ciao Vito ! How you Cugino?

[Rafaelissimmo]

Vito let me know if you need tips, I learned a lot from 3 seasons using the cloner.

[BrooklynMatty]

Looks great! I planned on doing the same with the cloner cuttings, pre-wetting the medium and not pouring water on it. But for the saran film part, are you basically creating a humidity dome on just the pot to keep the moisture in so they acclimate? How long do you plan on keeping them saran wrapped? It does makes sense though, awesome.

[Rafaelissimmo]

Matt its my understanding you can water in thru the saran wrap I will try at least a week. The wrap is just at the surface line.

[WillsC]

Rafael,

But this is just a sample of two cuttings, one in each method? If so.......couple years back someone sent me 3 cuttings of (no clue what) and I started them and two made it. Placed both in the ground under same conditions and one after 5 months was 5 feet tall and the other one 10" tall. Why? No clue. But to be sure of your results you would have to do a lot larger sample size wouldn't you?

[Rafaelissimmo]

Hi Wills thank you for the comment. I have been through 4-5 different rooting methods, and this is my third season using mainly either cloner and cups (I do both to increase my odds). I have thus spent 3 seasons observing and tinkering with both methods. I have numerous cuttings in both methods. I chose DLR for this topic because it most strikingly demonstrated the differences in real time, I could have chosen the Godfather fig as well and the results would have been almost the same, so this is not some random example. In fact, all my cupped cuttings (about 8) are leafed out for almost a month but showing very little in the way of roots. I even had to lower the lights from 4 to 2 T5s because the light energy was drying out the perlite too quickly.

[Harborseal]

There are lots of ways to use a cloner. Do you have sprayers or misters? What did you put in the reservoir - plain water, nutrients? How and how often did you disinfect? Did you leave it on 24/7 or have a timer? If you used a timer what were the settings? What temperature was the water and air at? This is the minimum info we'd need to replicate your set up.

[Rafaelissimmo]

Thank you for your comment Bob, please see my last post below where I will answer all your questions.

[Harborseal]

For a mere 19.95 plus shipping and handling...

[DaveL]

Bob you are correct, lots of variables being used on the hydro cloners. Most of us are learning on the run, hoping those with the experience pipe in. I had been using a home made cloner with sprayers and for the most part plain water. My water temperature is in the 69-71 range with the air temp 73-75*. The only additive I been using is Rapid start root enhancer. I run my pump on a timer, 15 min on 15 min off. I am also using an air pump and stone adding some extra oxygen to the water. So far my plans are to change and clean the unit on a monthly basis, no smell or slime so far. Some members have been using clorox and hydrogen peroxide in thier units. They have been reporting some success with them, but I am not sure as of yet. I have been testing on several cuttings and after 10 days most are showing initials. I am also rooting some cuttings with the three cup method and after a month have several young plants thriving. I am also testing Mai Mai's bag method on a dozen cuttings. Just started that method but it sounds promising.

[Rafaelissimmo]

Dave I also use rapid start in both my cups and cloner methods. I will post my entire variable below shortly in response to Bob's inquiry.

[greenfig]

Rafael,
What model of the clone have you used?
Is it a stock version or you modified it?

And the last questions: is it loud when it works and does it leak?

[Rafaelissimmo]

Hi Igor

I am using an aquastone cloner, with 14 slots. Purchased at hydroponic store, has pump and stone. The pump makes a continual low buzzing noise, I run it on max btw. No modifications. I am using the tightest collars, unlike the neoprene older collars, they don't stretch out and can be re-used if cleaned and disinfected. It does not leak but on occasion if the top is not sealed down properly some water can splash over the sides. Just pay attention when you change the water to reseal the top properly.

[Rafaelissimmo]

So the picture shows the roots this evening. The De La Reina would be the roots all the way on the left. There are 2 other heavily rooted cuttings. Believe it or not there is a single variety that is leafed out but absolutely refuses to put out roots so far (Paradiso Giovanni). As for methods, the cloner runs 24/7 with an aquastone, like an aquarium pump. I change the water every 7 days. 3/4 gallon is all it needs. Like Dave I use the recommended dose of rapidstart. After roots appear I add some nutrients, I have been using Cornucopia plus but others would work fine. I add a capful of hydrogen peroxide to the water as well. I disinfect the apparatus every 6-8 weeks. I have been using a heat mat under the cloner set to 79F but I am not convinced it is a necessary step. I will only use the mat when I am not using it elsewhere (I have 2 mats, there is also one under the humidity chamber that holds my perlite cups). The ambient temperature is a very dry 72F. I usually mist the leaves with diluted nutrient spray a few times a day to compensate for the dry environment. I am also water rooting all cuttings in cups of water in a humidity chamber as pre-rooting until lenticels or roots initials appear, so that preceeded the cloner here.

[Rafaelissimmo]

Igor you are 100% correct the cutting should never be below the surface, doing that will rot the cutting most of the time, I learned that lesson in my first season and lost a few cuttings from that mistake. Another nice feature if you can incorporate it into a dyi is a humidity dome. I do not have one unfortunately, but I have seen others who do. Last year I had some cuttings dry out from dry air up top even with water below!

[greenfig]

Ah! Thanks for a suggestion!
What I did instead of a dome, I covered the cuttings in cheese wax, this should prevent them from drying . The time will tell if that was a good idea or not while rooting but definitely helpful when the cuttings go outside. I covered a half of each cutting basically.

[Rafaelissimmo]

Igor last year I tried grafting tape on tips as a similar work-around but I believe my current system avoids the need for humidity and prevents tips from drying out. What I do is pre-root in cups of water in a humidity chamber. The cuttings start to leaf out in the cups, and the root initials appear. Once this is the case, I can safely transfer into the cloner and the leaves will be fine, they do not dry out or wilt, there is enough hydration from below to sustain the ecosystem.

[Rafaelissimmo]

I guess I will add that the purpose of this thread is NOT to say to members that I highly recommend this method. As I have stated, I like to use a couple of methods, but as the years go by I just want to point out what I see as obvious advantages. It does become tedious to give so much TLC to my perlite cups, but by no means am I abandoning that method either.

[Coop]

Those are some amazing roots my friend. If you wait much longer, you will need a 5 gallon pot just to get them in

[WillsC]

Rafael,

Well it is interesting. It is on my to try list. For me though in volume it is just too labor intensive but there are some varieties that are just a royal pain to root and grow and perhaps your way will be the trick for them.

[FigHappy]

What varieties are the hardest to root?

[Rafaelissimmo]

Sodus Sicilian is known to be a difficult fig to root. And as I observed, Paradiso Giovanni is giving me a hard time. Others may chime in.

[Rafaelissimmo]

Here is the transplanted cutting, its been 72 hours, so far so good!