X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • How to distinguish between Mission and Bordeaux type figs?

    Hey Folks,
    I've been reading a lot of older posts trying to learn more about about how everyone classifies types of figs. I've never grown or tasted a Bordeaux type or Mission type fig. It seems Bordeaux types have more of a fruit or berry flavor, and sometimes more acidic.

    Is it possible to distinguish between the two types from photos? Are there visible differences you can share with me?
    Thanks,
    Ken
    Last edited by Toejamken; 02-15-2020, 04:16 PM.
    Ken NW Florida 8b. WL: LSU Strawberry, Buzzone Nero, Campaniere, B Celeste, Sucrette, Longue D'Aout, Dauphine, Bordissot Blanca-Negra, LSU Scott's Yellow, LSU Jack Lily

  • #2
    I was trying to learn more about the Louisiana heirloom fig Native Black. There is an older post here, but it was not clear to me what type this fig is? It seemed the consensus was Mission type.
    Thanks,
    Ken
    I rooted this as a cutting a friend sent me in the winter of 2015. He told me it was from Becnel's Nursery, but I've been concerned since the beginning because in
    Ken NW Florida 8b. WL: LSU Strawberry, Buzzone Nero, Campaniere, B Celeste, Sucrette, Longue D'Aout, Dauphine, Bordissot Blanca-Negra, LSU Scott's Yellow, LSU Jack Lily

    Comment


    • #3
      You've asked a really thought provoking question to answer.

      For looks, both cut open and uncut, my single Black Mission and the Bordeaux figs look identical to me. Their skins are almost black with a deep, dull purple cast. There's often a frosty bloom on the skins. A white/creamy, 1/8th. inch thin flesh lies just under their tissue paper thin skins, and the centers are dark red wine colored. These are all non-caprified fruit, no wasp here!

      My four Bordeaux figs: Violette de B., Petite Nigra, Little Miss Figgy, and Beer's Black (B'sB is sometimes classed with Black Mission instead of Bordeaux...which tells you how close they are.), are impossible for me to tell apart, visually or flavor wise. They are all medium sized, about 45-50 grams, max.

      On the tongue the Bordeaux figs are not extremely sweet, just sweet enough, truly a little tart - almost with a touch of balsamic vinegar, and very rich berry like, with several berry tastes overlapping. I taste Concord grape, blueberry, blackberry, and raspberry, very much like a very richly flavored fruit punch. The riper they are, the richer their flavor is.

      I wish I had more varieties of Black Mission trees than just the one, in order to give a more conclusive comparison with the Bordeaux trees. I did get four more recently, because I liked the productivity and flavor of my single Bl. M. a lot, which is virused, but very asymptomatic now...not so when I got it in 2016 as a 2yr. old tree. All the four TC backup trees, gotten if my original virused tree started to decline, proved to be Black Mission NOTs. A real bummer! Thank you for that, AgriStarts and your flim-fam retailers!

      There are just two flavor differences that I have found in the fruit of my Black Mission, as compared to the Bordeaux figs. The BM's flavor is less complex, and less tart, but not by too much. However, when the Black Mission is fully ripe, it takes on a rich, mellow red wine flavor, minus the alcohol kick, which the Bordeaux figs never develop.

      I hope my evaluations help you.

      Thorntorn
      W. PA., Pittsburgh, zone 6b USDA, but more 5b, realistically. All pot grown fig trees, no in-grounds.

      Comment


      • #4
        Cool. Thanks for the thoughtful insight Thornton. I've never considered getting an actual Black Mission for comparison until now. I'll definitely be rereading this to take it all in.
        Ken NW Florida 8b. WL: LSU Strawberry, Buzzone Nero, Campaniere, B Celeste, Sucrette, Longue D'Aout, Dauphine, Bordissot Blanca-Negra, LSU Scott's Yellow, LSU Jack Lily

        Comment


        • #5
          I can't figure out what you mean by "Bordeaux type". Bordeaux is a port. The VdB variety is different from RdB and the two varieties have nothing to do with the Rouge de Bordeaux variety.
          I understand the term "Mission type" better. I guess these are a varieties like the Noire de Bellone, that really resemble the Mission variety.
          Last edited by cybercop; 02-16-2020, 03:34 AM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Well, I have read where there are some who group figs that are similar to VdB and Negronne, Nero 600m, Valle Negra, etc, but your point is well taken. I'm like the guy who said he couldn't say for sure without knowin. I'm gonna have to taste some so I knows. Hahaha.
            Ken NW Florida 8b. WL: LSU Strawberry, Buzzone Nero, Campaniere, B Celeste, Sucrette, Longue D'Aout, Dauphine, Bordissot Blanca-Negra, LSU Scott's Yellow, LSU Jack Lily

            Comment


            • #7
              The term "Bordeaux" type seems another American fig - growers construct, like the "Mt Etna" type. I believe that some of them are just Violette de Bordeaux renamed somewhere along the line. Rouge de Bordeaux and Ronde de Bordeaux are not really the same flavor, should not be included in the same family despite the name.

              The following are generally included in the "Bordeaux" types: Violette de Bordeaux, Beers Black, Little Miss Figgy, Petite Negra, Negronne, Nero 600m, Valle Negra, Petite Aubique.
              I think there are others, that is what I could remember off the top of my head.
              I have or have had all of those types I listed except Petite Negra and Negronne, they all tasted very similar to me.
              Ed
              SW PA zone 6a

              Comment


              • #8
                https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/core/lw..._Fig1_HTML.jpg

                This may help. See VdB and synonyms located within Group 2, Mission tucked into Group 4.

                Joe, Z6B, RI. Taking COVID-19 seriously. Self-quarantined, looking forward to next season.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Ed, Thanks. It's interesting to see the distinctions and similarities. I suppose flavor profiles may also mix? Almostedenplants shows their Mission fig offering as synonymous with Beers Black.

                  Joe, That table does help. Thanks. In group 5 I saw a Native De DFIC 086. Perhaps that could be Native Black?

                  Looks like I'm gonna have to get my tongue calibrated by tasting some of these. Hooty Hoo, y'all!

                  Ken
                  Ken NW Florida 8b. WL: LSU Strawberry, Buzzone Nero, Campaniere, B Celeste, Sucrette, Longue D'Aout, Dauphine, Bordissot Blanca-Negra, LSU Scott's Yellow, LSU Jack Lily

                  Comment


                  • jrdewhirst
                    jrdewhirst commented
                    Editing a comment
                    DFIC 086 is Hative d'Argenteuil, which is sometimes misspelled (or spell-checked) to Native . . . . "Hative" in French means hasty, implying that it is an early ripener. English-speakers (or spellchecks) ignorant about French sometimes mistakenly change the word to Native.

                • #10
                  The way I look at it Ken, is that the flavors of all the above Bordeaux types I grow are indistinguishable to me, as are the whole fruits' outside and cut open appearance. Their fruits' shapes and sizes are also the same to my eyes. The distinction lies in the leaf patterns and tree size. The Beer's Black is the largest in height. The others, VdB, PN, and LMF are noticeably smaller growing trees. Only Little Miss Figgy's leaves are consistently 5 lobed with two kankles. The others grow both 5 lobed leaves and single, spade leaves, all on the same tree, and even on the same stem.

                  Now concerning Black Mission...I will keep a lookout for a cutting grown BM, that I believe may be a different variety, or form, than my single tree. However, the Black Missions, I have read, are almost all virused...perhaps being genetically predisposed to virus infections. That's why I got the TC Black Missions a couple years ago, which as they matured proved not to be BM at all. Their fruit on the outside looks Black Mission, but on the inside is amber colored, and in taste is sweet, but bland, much like a light skinned fig.

                  Thorntorn
                  W. PA., Pittsburgh, zone 6b USDA, but more 5b, realistically. All pot grown fig trees, no in-grounds.

                  Comment


                  • lewi
                    lewi commented
                    Editing a comment
                    FYI the amber interior sugar fig is sold by some Californian growers as "mission". In turn these fake missions are sold in supermarkets across the USA, sometimes even mixed in with the red interior much more complex tasting real mission fig.
                    Basically, we have a real issue with an imposter "mission" and Agristarts did not start the ball rolling...

                  • Thorntorn
                    Thorntorn commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Thank you, Lewi, your information puts a different light on my young TC Black Mission imposter, which may in fact be Black Mission after all. However, your revelation presents more questions, like, if my young TC is a BM, with its amber interior, then is my old, much beloved BM really a BM, since it's interior is winey red colored?

                    Will the wonders of positive fig variety identification never cease to confuse me?

                    So far I have: 1.) White Marseilles with spidery lobed leaves that is actually Tena, 2.) a Green Ischia that is as yet unidentified, but definitely NOT GI, and 3.) The Black Mission question.

                    I don't have that many trees, and to have so many mislabeled ones, is a testimony to the skullduggery of the nursery industry.

                    Thorntorn

                • #11
                  Thornton,
                  Since the Bordeaux types are basically the same which do you consider to be the most productive and/or rain resistant?

                  Ken
                  Ken NW Florida 8b. WL: LSU Strawberry, Buzzone Nero, Campaniere, B Celeste, Sucrette, Longue D'Aout, Dauphine, Bordissot Blanca-Negra, LSU Scott's Yellow, LSU Jack Lily

                  Comment


                  • Thorntorn
                    Thorntorn commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Excess moisture, and all the Bordeaux figs will split for me, no difference. I still like them a lot.

                    Thorntorn

                  • cybercop
                    cybercop commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Does it matter if they will split? At high humidity levels, figs will spoil, whether split or not. In high humidity, there are no figs with "closed eyes". All pictures of such fruits are taken in dry weather.

                  • lewi
                    lewi commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Nero 600? Even people in Hawaii are reputed to like that one....

                • #12
                  Thornton,
                  I have never considered TC plants before. It would be nice if healthy specimens of Mission figs could be duplicated. A rich, mellow red wine flavor is intriguing.
                  Ken
                  Ken NW Florida 8b. WL: LSU Strawberry, Buzzone Nero, Campaniere, B Celeste, Sucrette, Longue D'Aout, Dauphine, Bordissot Blanca-Negra, LSU Scott's Yellow, LSU Jack Lily

                  Comment


                  • Thorntorn
                    Thorntorn commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Problem #1. with Tissue Cultured fig trees is misidentified figs from the TC nursery, AgriStarts. One very serious case has already been documented.

                    Problem #2. Retailers, who could care less, especially onliners, send mislabeled TC figs. You find out when the tree fruits, sometimes a couple years later. By then, the irresponsible retail nursery is either out of businesses, or unwilling to provide reparations.

                    Problem #3. TC trees often stall in growth, and produce a myriad of basal shoots.

                    Problem #4. New fig enthusiasts are preyed upon by cut rate nurseries who sell TC figs at low, appealing prices.

                    Thorntorn

                  • lewi
                    lewi commented
                    Editing a comment
                    TC may not be FMV free at all. But Agristarts sells to big nurseries like Wellsprings....and they sell cheap LSU Purple, Hardy Chicago, and ( white) Ischia...these are figs I have experience with, and pruned to one trunk, usually will produce soon enough.

                  • Thorntorn
                    Thorntorn commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Lewi,

                    Is White Ischia a different variety than Green Ischia? My TC Green Ischia turned out to bear creamy/amber colored fruit, that is super sweet and early ripening, not green colored or red inside when ripe. Could my tree be White Ischia?

                    Thorntorn

                • #13
                  The missions in my neighborhood usually have a cavity in them, with a lighter rosey colored pulp.

                  Click image for larger version

Name:	2245F771-AE42-4109-BF45-C03603259E68.jpeg
Views:	92
Size:	2.94 MB
ID:	715053 C
                  Tom V. from San Diego, Ca.🇺🇸

                  Comment


                  • Thorntorn
                    Thorntorn commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Tom, they look caprified. Are they? Eating figs with what look like hot peppers? My kind of snack!

                    Thorntorn
                    Last edited by Thorntorn; 02-16-2020, 06:41 PM.

                  • ZomVee
                    ZomVee commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Thorntorn I wouldn’t doubt that these were caprified, admittedly I didn’t check, I just enjoyed 😁😁😁

                    Serranos and figs, I’m telling you, there’s something there!

                • #14
                  Zomvee,
                  How moist is the pulp?
                  Ken
                  Ken NW Florida 8b. WL: LSU Strawberry, Buzzone Nero, Campaniere, B Celeste, Sucrette, Longue D'Aout, Dauphine, Bordissot Blanca-Negra, LSU Scott's Yellow, LSU Jack Lily

                  Comment


                  • ZomVee
                    ZomVee commented
                    Editing a comment
                    They’re never dripping with nectar. Pleasant moisture, it gets the job done to have a enjoyable bite.

                • #15
                  Zomvee,
                  They look delicious!
                  Ken NW Florida 8b. WL: LSU Strawberry, Buzzone Nero, Campaniere, B Celeste, Sucrette, Longue D'Aout, Dauphine, Bordissot Blanca-Negra, LSU Scott's Yellow, LSU Jack Lily

                  Comment

                  Working...
                  X