X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • The Enigma of Potting Up Fig Pops - Resolved?

    It is generally agreed that the actual rooting of cuttings is probably the easiest and most successful part of propagating figs.
    Potting up the rooted cutting, however, is fraught with a good amount of failure. Why?
    The obvious answer is the inevitable disturbance of roots when moving from one medium to the next. No matter how careful one might be, there will always be micro-damage if not visible harm to the fine fibers. For example, emptying the container of DE, leaves the root mass hanging in air without support. Potting the cutting, results in bunching up of roots to the lowest level of the container from the weight of the dampened soil.

    So, how do you minimize root disturbance?

    1. Direct potting method - See the pros and cons according to Ross Raddi here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmwxOoNUeew
    2. Biodegradable Fabric Fig Pop Method - https://www.ourfigs.com/forum/figs-h...-figpop-method
    3. Modified Fig Pop Method with Solid Root Mass -

    The third method requires small diameter bags that promote early filling of the smaller growing area with a solid root mass.
    When potting up, you remove the bag and plant the whole shebang in soil with minimal root disturbance.


    .... Photos to be posted shortly
    Frank Tallahasee 8B
    North Florida Figs

  • #2
    That kinds of rule out prerooting. I found the difficulty of potting up was not the potting up part but what to do afterwards that gets it to grow as quickly as possible without pushing it too hard.
    Moved from 10b to 7a

    Comment


    • #3
      FMD
      3. Modified Fig Pop Method with Solid Root Mass
      I thought that was the standard method, and I have never even considered removing the rooted cutting from the medium in the bag. When it's time to put the cutting in a bigger container, I carefully remove the bag, keeping the root mass and medium intact. For this, the roots need to be fairly well developed, of course, and I've always used a thin cellophane bag which is easy to peel off.

      If you use some loose medium that doesn't compact to some degree, such as 100% perlite, this 'solid root mass' method would no doubt be difficult.
      Don, Danmark

      Comment


      • FMD
        FMD commented
        Editing a comment
        I was mostly referring to rooting in DE.

    • #4
      Someone on here just slits the figpop bag in a couple of places and puts the whole thing in the uppot, the roots of course will find their way out
      WV Harpers Ferry Zone 6b

      Comment


      • #5
        Originally posted by grasshopper View Post
        That kinds of rule out prerooting. I found the difficulty of potting up was not the potting up part but what to do afterwards that gets it to grow as quickly as possible without pushing it too hard.
        good to have you back buddy?
        In remembrance of wolfy 5/4/06-3/23/20

        Comment


        • grasshopper
          grasshopper commented
          Editing a comment
          Hey, how are things going? 😀

          Good to be back.

      • #6
        Pictures of rooted cuttings in fabric:
        Attached Files
        Frank Tallahasee 8B
        North Florida Figs

        Comment


        • grasshopper
          grasshopper commented
          Editing a comment
          Hi Frank, how long does it take to grow to this size? And how often do you water it? Do you normally keep it in a cup before up potting?

      • #7
        Pictures of of rooting in narrow plastic bags:
        Frank Tallahasee 8B
        North Florida Figs

        Comment


        • #8
          Continued
          Attached Files
          Frank Tallahasee 8B
          North Florida Figs

          Comment


          • #9
            The fabric bags look like they would work really well placed directly into a new pot with soil around them. The roots would grow right out and the DE would still be there to protect the cutting from being too wet. With the plastic bags, you could also cut vertically in a few places and the bottom, put it directly in a new pot and in a year or so, pull most of it out in pieces when it won't hurt the plant. I thought about doing something similar with fabric grow bags, but they don't decompose fast enough and I didn't have great rooting success because they dry out too fast.

            Comment


            • FMD
              FMD commented
              Editing a comment
              The problem in both those scenarios is that it would negate the purpose of rooting in DE ie., avoiding overwatering that causes rot.

            • LLS
              LLS commented
              Editing a comment
              I'm not sure how that negates rooting in DE. I would put the bag with the DE in the new pot and surround with new medium. You could put more DE in too.

          • #10
            FMD How wet is the DE cutting when you transplant it?
            WL: Maltese Beauty, Dalmatie, Texas Peach, Buzzone Nero, BFF, BB10, Adriatic JH, Battaglia Green, CLBC, White Baca, Del Monte, Raspberry Tart, Watermelon, Edith Lamb, Thermalito, Hative D'Argenteuil, Azores, Martinenca Rimada, Paratjal Rimada, Golden Rainbow

            Comment


            • FMD
              FMD commented
              Editing a comment
              The DE was medium wet at the time of potting, however it wouldn’t matter how wet or dry it is since the root mass would hold firm in either situation.

            • FigHearted
              FigHearted commented
              Editing a comment
              I've removed some rooted and shooted avocado seeds from the same media I use on fig cuttings (mostly perlite with vermiculite and a touch of oyster shell grit). Granted they were not insanely rooted, but all of the media fell away and left me holding naked avocado seedlings. I replanted them in different containers using the same medium and they didn't know anything happened to them.

              I was actually hoping the roots would have held on to the media, but there were not a ton of roots, which is why it all fell away. I always find that wet roots and media hold together better than dry, which is how I transplant. Yet I've read here to transplant when dry. Maybe that works for that location's humidity level and other conditions, but here in the Vegas desert, we have different conditions.... humidity? What's that???

          • #11
            Definitely no expert as this is really my first year trying to root and up-pot cuttings. But I’ll give my experience so far and why I’m doing what I’m doing.

            In an effort to avoid transplant shock, which if I understand correctly is the roots struggling to adapt to a new medium, I am trying to root my cuttings in the same medium that I will up-pot them to. Now, I have only done one up-pot - and that was a week ago. When I did, to remove the cutting from the cup, I over saturated the cup with water, pressing the cup wherever roots were to make sure they weren’t sticking to the cup, then tilted the cup over while holding the cutting for security. Once out of the cup, I gently rinsed away the medium from the roots. I then placed the cutting gently into it’s new pot that was 2/3 filled with the same medium the rioting was already in. I then filled in the pot the rest of the way, gently pressing in the soil around the cutting for support. I then mixed one cup’s worth of all-purpose fertilizer and poured it close to base of the cutting. So far - a week in - the cutting has added at least an inch and the leaves look a bunch better. It has been sitting on my armoire in my dining room about 4 feet from a door that opens frequently.

            But wish me luck. Tomorrow, after church, I am going to be up-potting my four other cuttings. Two show decent to abundant roots, so I’m feeling comfortable about those two. However, I have two 3-week old fig pops - one showing dieback and another showing leaves out of the tip. But I want to get them all up-potted and start them on a fertilizer schedule (all-purpose weekly). Might even let a few of them sit outside for some direct sun for a little bit.
            Central, GA - Zone 8a
            Wish list: Yellow Long Neck, Lattarula, Italian 258, Black Madeira

            Comment


            • FigHearted
              FigHearted commented
              Editing a comment
              No direct sunlight yet! They are wayyyy tooooo young for direct sun.

              Personally, I would not even be rinsing off the roots either. No need. You just run an extra risk of shocking them.

            • grasshopper
              grasshopper commented
              Editing a comment
              Second on the light comment 👍

            • grasshopper
              grasshopper commented
              Editing a comment
              One cup of all purpose fertilizer. Is it organic or chemical? What is the NPK?

          • #12
            I'm liking the idea of the cloth bag inside of the thin plastic bags used for fig pops, but with potting soil inside the bag instead of DE.
            Any idea how long these cloth bags take to break down ? One year ? Less ?
            Ryan
            Northeast Texas, 8a

            Comment


            • FMD
              FMD commented
              Editing a comment
              The benefits of DE compared to potting medium are too many for the trade off imo.
              I have no idea how long it takes for the fabric to degrade, but it really doesn’t matter since the roots will have take over 100 fold outside of the bag, once up potted.

          • #13
            One more interesting point; I never rinse out or wash off the DE and have never had rot. I think the small amount of DE dust helps to coalesce the root mass faster.
            Frank Tallahasee 8B
            North Florida Figs

            Comment


            • SamTO
              SamTO commented
              Editing a comment
              Same. I have found that as long as the holes in the bottom of the cup are sufficient, even the bottom-of-the-bag DE shows clear runoff after 3-4 waterings anyway. I think the DE-specific threads have correctly identified that planting depth (relative to the perched water table) is the more significant risk factor.

          • #14
            I always use 18 oz cup, when I root in DE. The DE falls off the roots fairly easily, and I always put plenty of potting mix into the up pot container(usually one gallon) before I place the rooted cutting into the container. That gives the roots and the plant plenty of room to grow. If I'm reading your post correctly, you're planting the rooted cutting too deep in the container, thereby not giving it ample room to grow, and forcing the roots to stay wet.
            Ray in Columbia, SC Zone 8

            Comment


            • #15
              A well rooted cutting in DE, regardless of container used, will have roots growing out of the bottom, middle and perhaps the top part. When you remove the DE, you remove the structure that is holding the roots in place and gravity pulls them to the lowest level. When up-potting, it doesn't matter how deep it is placed (no, I don't generally place them deeply), the roots will be pushed downwards and inward by the potting mix. No matter how careful you are, there is going to be root disturbance and possibly damage. The roots will also face a degree of shock simply from having to acclimatize to a wholly different environment. With the root mass method, the roots maintain the structure they have worked to achieve over the its first 4-8 weeks of life. Once in their new environment, all they are asked to do is to keep growing into the potting mix.
              I know that I am not the only one that has had close to 100% rooting success with DE but 60-80% success when up potting. I am trying to eliminate the failure rate via this method.
              Frank Tallahasee 8B
              North Florida Figs

              Comment


              • #16
                4. Leaving rooted cuttingand medium in the bag
                laying bag on paper towel and cutting 6 longitudinal slits in bag from 1 inch below top all way to bottom, wrapping all in paper towel and gently lowering into premade hole in uppottig media, and firming around the slit bag. Roots get out through slits fine and after few months top of bag can be cut withscissors to allow a big trunk to grow unhampered. This was theres ZERO fine root hairs disturbed.Mine done this way went in ground instead of uppots as well as ones in uppots are doing great from last year. I do plan to be trying biodegradable non woven fabric bags some this year which will hopefully be the best plan of all as mentioned above.
                Z8A NC SANDHILLS

                WISH LIST BURGAN UNK, ZAFFIRO,

                Comment


                • #17
                  These transition problems are why I prefer to direct pot. The usual approach (Promix Hp or Sunshine #4; 4x4x9 treepot; warm place: 70's to 80's F; plenty of low to mod. intensity light) is probably 80-90% for me with fresh cuttings. Proper initial potting (bottom of cutting 2+ inches from pot bottom, mix not too wet, letting top cuts dry before wrapping with parafilm) and proper water mgmt (bottom watering only until until leafing large, only watering when pots are light, dilute fertigation every watering cycle or two) equals almost zero loss when uppotting to nursery 5's.
                  Last edited by AndyG; 02-16-2020, 08:22 PM.
                  SoCal, zone 10a

                  Comment

                  Working...
                  X