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  • Improved Celeste

    Improved Celeste! As always, please share any photos and experiences here and on the variety index.

    For starters, there are several varieties that can be considered improved Celeste (note lowercase 'i'), but this is reference to Improved Celeste. This is a confounding and confusing topic, so if I make mistakes please correct me! The LSU breeding program developed (at least) 3 improved Celeste varieties: O'Rourke, Champagne (Golden Celeste), and Improved Celeste. As I understand it, Improved Celeste has not been officially released like the other two. Because of this, I don't think it should have LSU in the name?

    O'Rourke has been mislabeled as Improved Celeste (IC henceforth) in the nursery trade quite a bit, they can be distinguished by lobe count: IC will have 1-3 lobes (thumbs on occasion), O'Rourke will have 3-5 lobes (looks like Brunswick). To keep it simple: any one lobed leaves = Improved Celeste; any 5 lobed leaves = O'Rourke. Golden Celeste/Champagne will have golden fruit, of course. There are also untold other Celeste variants, some improved, to make the puzzle more difficult.

    The primary improvements of IC over regular Celeste are less fruit drop, longer harvest, and hardiness. IC should be considered hardy through zone 6, herman2 suggested possibly zone 5. Reportedly it has a slightly larger eye than Celeste. In years of being killed to the ground it can regrow and still fruit heavily.

    IC will set breba, though I don't know how large of a crop. Starting in late June, they blend right into the main crop which is early (70 days to ripen) and starts ripening in early to mid-August (mid-Atlantic region) and should continue til frost. Light brown or violet fruits with pink centers that are small but very, very sweet! Can ripen in part shade.

    An excellent, easy to grow fig that should be grown by all 'beginners', myself included! Hopefully I can root some of these. Are they any varieties you would like to see me write up, let me know!
    Hi I have a question on fig names. There are many figs which are often described as thought to be a Celeste variations. Could these be very similar because they are
    https://www.figbid.com/Listing/Browse?Seller=Kelby
    SE PA
    Zone 6

  • #2
    All the figs out of LSU are hybrids. The O'Rourke and Champagne should be referred to as O'Rourke and Champagne even though they may be/are considered as improved. I know that they have been labeled as improved celeste and sold as such. I am in the belief that the LSU IC from JF&E fits the description of LSU IC and has become recognized as LSU IC and becoming more widely distributed. All may not agree with me. Much of this belief comes from the writings of Dan A. His descriptions of the leaves and fruiting characteristics fit the JF&E version. His description is what made me choose this as one of my first varieties here, at my new location.
    You may only view thumbnails in this gallery. This gallery has 1 photos.
    PPP
    Eatonton, GA zone 7b/8a

    Comment


    • Kelby
      Kelby commented
      Editing a comment
      Thanks for your input! I didn't know JF&E were applying the LSU label, good to know!

  • #3
    There has not been any confusion between the other cultivars other than possibly Champagne aka LSU Golden Celeste.

    The common naming confusion is only between the improved Celeste hybrid and the O'Rourke due to a release document that referred to the O'Rourke as LSU's Improved Celeste (they also referred to Champagne as Golden Celeste). Many improved Celeste hybrids (several different cultivars) were in circulation for evaluation purposes and wound up in nurseries. They were erroneously given the new names, O'Rourke, Champagne and Tiger. http://www.lsu.edu/departments/horti...e/new_figs.pdf

    Selected standard Celeste trees are labeled as "improved' due to some characteristics, ie larger figs and or setting a larger volume of figs, but the figs and trees still look like a standard Celeste.

    The improved Celeste hybrid should be renamed, because its the only one that has ever caused any confusion. IC hybrid is an easy distinction and is also descriptive.
    .
    Pete R - Hudson Valley, NY - zone 5b

    Comment


    • #4
      Originally posted by AscPete View Post
      There has not been any confusion between the other cultivars other than possibly Champagne aka LSU Golden Celeste.

      The common naming confusion is only between the improved Celeste hybrid and the O'Rourke due to a release document that referred to the O'Rourke as LSU's Improved Celeste (they also referred to Champagne as Golden Celeste). Many improved Celeste hybrids (several different cultivars) were in circulation for evaluation purposes and wound up in nurseries. They were erroneously given the new names, O'Rourke, Champagne and Tiger. http://www.lsu.edu/departments/horti...e/new_figs.pdf
      I have read that there were several, not just one, descendants of Celeste bred at the LSU program, which were passed around to outside people for evaluation or surreptitiously taken from the LSU tests fields by those interested back before most of these 'named' varieties were released. Dr. O'Rourke's goal was to improve Celeste, and some of these other varieties also got called 'improved Celeste' as well.

      Ed
      SW PA zone 6a

      Comment


      • #5
        Ed,
        Yes, according to anecdotal info, many of the most promising hybrids were released for "evaluation".
        Which actually means that there are several different IC Hybrids in circulation at this time.
        I'm currently trialing two (2) different IC Hybrids from 2 different sources.
        Pete R - Hudson Valley, NY - zone 5b

        Comment


        • noss
          noss commented
          Editing a comment
          Hi Pete,

          What are the sources of your two different IC Hybrids and what are the differences between them? Do you have photos of each one so you can show the differences? Are there differences in the fruits? Size/colors of fruits? Leaves? Growth patterns? This is interesting.

          Thanks,

          noss

        • AscPete
          AscPete commented
          Editing a comment
          Noss,
          Petals from the Past (PP) and Edible Landscaping (EL)
          The figs are similar except that the IC EL (sold as O'Rourke EL) has a medium sized eye and is bland in flavor.

      • #6
        ...The LSU breeding program developed (at least) 3 improved Celeste varieties: O'Rourke, Champagne (Golden Celeste), and Improved Celeste. As I understand it, Improved Celeste has not been officially released like the other two. Because of this, I don't think it should have LSU in the name?....

        I have all 3 with Improved Celeste acquired from Herman2. They are all very good, prolific, but different . GC is the most vigorous but the O'Rourke is a bit tastier. I would recommend any of them!
        USDA z 10a, SoCal. WL: De la Roca, Lampeira Prush, Raspberry Tart, Boysenberry Blush

        Comment


        • AscPete
          AscPete commented
          Editing a comment
          LSU breeding program developed several Celeste Hybrids... only one (1) was nicknamed Improved Celeste.
          Some of the hybrids are O'Rourke, Champagne, Hollier, Gold and Tiger. The nickname of improved Celeste has stuck with the O'Rourke and the "unrelease" Celeste hybrid. The LSU figs were never historically all named or called "Improved Celeste".

      • #7
        My Improved Celeste from Petals from the Past. It is my earliest ripening fig in a container.



        Youtube: PA Figs eBay: tdepoala
        Wishlist: Galicia Negra, Paritjal Rimada, Black Ischia UCD

        Comment


        • #8
          Thoughts on Mega Celeste too, please. If it isn't in the 'improved' category, is it just a certain strain of regular Celeste?

          Regards,
          billy
          Middle Tn. - 7a
          Seeking: Chiappetta. Cuttings or plant. P.M. me an offer please. ~billy

          Comment


          • Kelby
            Kelby commented
            Editing a comment
            It seems Giant Celeste is Tiger, sorry!

          • PA Figs
            PA Figs commented
            Editing a comment
            No problem Kelby. I remember trying to figure out the Improved Celeste vs Orourke ID a while ago and was pretty sure I confirmed the ID.

          • Kelby
            Kelby commented
            Editing a comment
            Giant, Mega, potato potahto.

        • #9
          Giant Celeste is what people were calling the LSU Tiger fig before LSU officially named it. The Mega Celeste from what I've read is not even a Celeste fig.


          Jennings, Southwest Louisiana, Zone 9a

          Comment


          • #10
            Reading all this naming stuff gives me a headache...
            Phil
            Zone 7A - Newark, DE; Zone 8A - Wilmington, NC;

            Comment


            • noss
              noss commented
              Editing a comment
              Makes me want to eat them all, phil.

          • #11
            Kelby,
            The LSU breeding program developed (at least) 3 improved Celeste varieties
            The program bred Celeste hybrids and called only one (1) Improved Celeste.


            O'Rourke has been mislabeled as Improved Celeste
            Officially O'Rourke is the LSU Improved Celeste.


            Unofficial improved Celeste Hybrids were renamed O'Rourke erroneously.

            Its really not confusing.
            You may only view thumbnails in this gallery. This gallery has 4 photos.
            Last edited by AscPete; 03-07-2015, 01:50 AM.
            Pete R - Hudson Valley, NY - zone 5b

            Comment


            • mountainfigs
              mountainfigs commented
              Editing a comment
              http://hortsci.ashspublications.org/.../45/5/826.full
              ‘O'Rourke’ Fig
              Charles E. Johnson, Ed O'Rourke and James E. Boudreaux
              "‘O'Rourke’ is a common-type fig that is very productive and has performed well in grower trials and home orchards. This selection has previously been unofficially named and propagated as ‘Improved Celeste’; however, ‘Improved Celeste’ is not necessarily the same as ‘O'Rourke’."

            • Kelby
              Kelby commented
              Editing a comment
              Thanks Tony, good info. I like this quote: "This selection has previously been unofficially named and propagated as ‘Improved Celeste’; however, ‘Improved Celeste’ is not necessarily the same as ‘O'Rourke’."

            • noss
              noss commented
              Editing a comment
              The thing I notice about the O'R fig is the closed eye, compared to the more open eye on the IC. I would think that was a good reason to choose it for the official LSU iC. I've never tasted an O'R, but I'd love to do so. All the O'Rs at the Fig Field Day had been scarfed up by the time I got there and there were only the unripe ones, for most of the figs there to taste, plus, the figs were not ripening as early as usual. That was a fun day. The ICs are so good. noss

          • #12
            Am I right in stating we have the following Improved Celeste variants ---- O'Rourke, Tiger, Champagne and Improved Celeste.
            I happen to have all these but I have not managed to sample Improved Celeste due many die backs and last season was my best shot
            at it but forgot about its ripe figs due to over zealous in salmon fishing. Of the 3 others, my current favourite is O'Rourke. I thought I read
            somewhere that Champagne(aka Golden Celeste) is Dr.O'Rourke's favourite. It seems there is more than 1 strain of LSU Champagne. This
            group of new figs from LSU is interesting, all great figs though.

            Comment


            • Kelby
              Kelby commented
              Editing a comment
              I recall Cajun Figs Dan saying there were a couple Golden Celeste hybrids floating around LA, I don't any more than that though.

            • King Fig
              King Fig commented
              Editing a comment
              Yes there are several different figs having the Golden Celeste name. The one from UCD is NOT a true Golden Celeste fig. What is pictured on the UCD website is that of a Golden Alma fig. It positively is not a Golden Celeste. The different Golden Celeste figs in my collection are different siblings figs that came from private collections traced to dr O himself. They too came from the breeding program.... Fro more information go to Dans Cajun Figs and you will get the real facts.

              Dan
              Semper Fi-cus

          • #13

            Tried to post a new thread on the difference between O'Rourke and Improved Celeste - O'Rourke fig cultivar and Improved Celeste fig cultivar: what's the difference and why the confusion? - however it has too many photos to get past the filter. The many photos are necessary because the way they have been used has created a lot of the confusion. I examine the problems with the photos and the information at three very good plant nurseries: Almost Eden in Louisiana, Petals From The Past in Alabama, and Edible Landscaping in Virginia.

            For now, I've only been able to post the write-up at my fig site:
            http://mountainfigs.net/cultivars/or...nct-cultivars/

            I've condensed the post below. Anyone who wants to see the full details and photos can follow the link:


            O’Rourke and Improved Celeste are very different, distinct cultivars. Both are said to have come out of the LSU fig breeding program. If so, both are improved celeste hybrids; however, one, O’Rourke, was officially released by LSU, whereas the other cultivar, already known in commercial nurseries as Improved Celeste, was not officially released. I don’t know that LSU has even acknowledged its existence, except in passing. Nor do I know how Improved Celeste got its name or who first named it.


            According to LSU, this is the O’Rourke fruit, below, though it may not be the most representative picture, since O’Rourke is said to have fruit that “tapers slightly toward the stem end with a long neck,” according to Dr. O’Rourke, et al:


            The fruit pictured immediately below is Improved Celeste:
            http://www.justfruitsandexotics.com/…d-celeste-fig/


            Improved Celeste Fruit is more squat and often more red or purple. O’Rourke Fruit is more slender in appearance and often more brown.


            The leaves of both cultivars are also totally different. O’Rourke leaves are commonly 5 lobed, whereas Improved Celeste leaves are commonly 3 lobed. For a more precise description of the very clear leaf differences see cajunfig’s post on the topic or note Kelby’s distinction: “any one lobed leaves = Improved Celeste; any 5 lobed leaves = O’Rourke.”

            ... ... ...

            Given the significant differences between O’Rourke fruit and leaves and Improved Celeste fruit and leaves, why are these cultivars ever confused and conflated? Seems to be a ready explanation: Multiple very good commercial plant nurseries have mixed up these two cultivars, claimed them to be one and the same, and continue to unwittingly perpetuate the mistake.
            .
            .. ... ...

            How did these nurseries get so confused? I have no reason to doubt cajunfig’s explanation:


            “When LSU officially released their O’Rourke cultivar in 2007 several retail nurseries just changed the name of their Improved Celeste stock trees and/or their LSU Improved Celeste stock trees to the O’Rourke name.”


            Why would they do this? I would guess because LSU itself had previously referred to the O’Rourke fig as Improved Celeste. O’Rourke is an improved Celeste hybrid but not the Improved Celeste cultivar that was already in commercial circulation when O’Rourke was released in 2007. Dr. O’Rourke, et al:


            ‘O’Rourke’ is a common-type fig that is very productive and has performed well in grower trials and home orchards. This selection has previously been unofficially named and propagated as ‘Improved Celeste’; however, ‘Improved Celeste’ is not necessarily the same as ‘O’Rourke’.


            “Not necessarily” is by now completely misleading, since the cultivar that goes only by the name Improved Celeste (or Improved Celeste O’Rourke Not), when not mistakenly called O’Rourke, is not remotely the same cultivar as O’Rourke. A miscommunication of sorts apparently occurred and has self-perpetuated. (Possibly other people elsewhere, especially in Louisiana, are calling Improved Celeste by some other name but if so I’m not aware of it, of any local or other names that “Improved Celeste” may have been given or had originally.)


            To my knowledge, cajunfigs first clarified the complete difference between O’Rourke and Improved Celeste several years ago in a series of posts:
            http://cajunfigs.blogspot.com/2012/0…t-orourke.html
            http://cajunfigs.blogspot.com/2012/0…-improved.html
            http://cajunfigs.blogspot.com/2012/0…-improved.html
            http://cajunfigs.blogspot.com/2012/0…sonis-lsu.html


            There are a lot of pictures of Improved Celeste leaves and Improved Celeste fruit available online. And there are sufficient pictures of O’Rourke leaves online. However, it would help to see many more pictures of O’Rourke fruit. My Improved Celeste trees have produced fruit bountifully. My O’Rourke tree has produced only a handful of fruit thus far.

            Tony WV 6b
            https://mountainfigs.net/

            Comment


            • noss
              noss commented
              Editing a comment
              cajunfigs.blogspot is only for invited people to see. noss

          • #14
            Tony,
            A nice write up . I would like to mention that caprified O'Rourke and IC look very different inside . They are much closer to dark red.
            The leaf shapes are still different , with 5 fingers more common on O'Rourke
            USDA z 10a, SoCal. WL: De la Roca, Lampeira Prush, Raspberry Tart, Boysenberry Blush

            Comment


            • mountainfigs
              mountainfigs commented
              Editing a comment
              What was the taste of the caprified O'R and IC? Sometimes I think we must get incidental (non-wasp) pollination on some of the figs here too (WV) because of their off the charts taste and different look. Also some San Pedro type figs (King, etc) are said to ripen an occasional main crop fig even in temperate areas. I would guess that this would be due to what I call incidental pollination. I've haven't studied this closely at all because it's nothing that can be relied on around here. The typical Improved Celeste here is unusually sweet, really opens people's eyes, however to me it has a somewhat thin honey or sugar taste that doesn't compare to the more flavorful varieties like Mt. Etna. But for those mostly interested in the intense sweet kick, they prefer Improved Celeste. Occasionally, I'll get a much more flavorful Improved Celeste - and possibly the darker pulp that you describe - especially when conditions are such that the skin darkens to deep purple red. I wonder too if in those cases some incidental pollination has occurred.

          • #15
            mountainfigs, You can post all the photos you want in a thread but only a few per post. If you split up the photos 3 or 4 to a post and continue in a new post they should show up without problems.
            Bob C. KC, MO Zone 6a. Wanted: Martineca Rimada, Galicia Negra, Fioroni Ruvo, De La Reina - Pons, Tauro, BFF, Sefrawi, Sbayi, Mavra Sika , Fillaciano Bianco, Corynth, Souadi, Acciano Purple, LSU Tiger, LSU Red, Cajun Gold, BB-10 any great tasting fig

            Comment


            • mountainfigs
              mountainfigs commented
              Editing a comment
              Thanks, Bob. I've now got most of the rest in below.

          • #16
            Okay, here's much of the rest of the too-large post on O'Rourke and Improved Celeste. I was able to include some but not all of the photos. This is the part that focuses on the confusion found at the websites of various plant nurseries.

            Pics of my O’Rourke leaves and O’Rourke fruit:



            Improved Celeste, leaves and fruit, my pics:


            Given the significant differences between O’Rourke fruit and leaves and Improved Celeste fruit and leaves, why are these cultivars ever confused and conflated? Seems to be a ready explanation: Multiple very good commercial plant nurseries have mixed up these two cultivars, claimed them to be one and the same, and continue to unwittingly perpetuate the mistake. Almost Eden nursery in Louisiana and Petals from the Past nursery in Alabama are two of the best nurseries to purchase fig trees from. I have many great fig trees purchased from both nurseries. Mistakes happen. Here are the mistakes they have made and/or are making with these two cultivars:

            Almost Eden uses the following photos that appear to be Improved Celeste fruit on its O’Rourke page to sell what it claims to be O’Rourke trees:


            The fruit above is “turbinate,” and that is how Almost Eden describes it. However Improved Celeste fruit is turbinate, not O’Rourke officially, which is said to have fruit that “tapers slightly toward the stem end with a long neck,”according to Dr. O’Rourke, et al.


            Another point of confusion, directions on Almost Eden’s O’Rourke web page intended to assure viewers that AE has the true O’Rourke take viewers to a web page showing only the fruit and trees of Improved Celeste. This O’Rourke pagerefers viewers to this Improved Celeste pic page.


            One longtime fig grower has noted that Almost Eden has shipped O’Rourke and Improved Celeste trees to him more-or-less interchangeably. This occurred either due to mislabeling or because AE remains confused about the difference.


            Below is the Improved Celeste fruit that Almost Eden displays on its Improved Celeste page. After accounting for some lighting differences, it looks nearly identical to the supposedly O’Rourke fruit displayed on the O’Rourke page. From AE’s Improved Celeste Page:


            For its part, Petals from the Past uses LSU’s photo of O’Rourke fruit to sell what it believes to be O’Rourke trees but which are actually Improved Celeste trees that it sent to me. Simultaneously, the nursery uses a photo of presumably its own Improved Celeste trees, which are the actual tree clones it sold to me, Improved Celeste, not O’Rourke:

            Note, the tree on the left immediately above does not produce the fruit on the right immediately above, despite Petals from the Past’s juxtaposition of the two photos. The O’Rourke photo on the right is LSU’s photo, surely taken in Louisiana. The Improved Celeste photo on the left is presumably from the orchards of Petals from the Past in Alabama.


            Making the confusion/conflation complete, Petals from the Past states: “O’Rourke often referred to as Improved ‘Celeste is a tan fig with good flavor.”


            I have purchased a total of six so-called O’Rourke trees from Petals from the Past and they are all instead Improved Celeste trees producing nothing but of course Improved Celeste fruit. (I made the bulk purchase knowingly a couple years ago when I realized what PP was selling. I prefer Improved Celeste to O’Rourke though both are great cultivars. Improved Celeste is a very robust, plump, especially sweet and fast-ripening fig. It was great to be able to gift this wonderful cultivar to family and friends.)


            I’ve purchased many trees from Almost Eden but not their so-called O’Rourke, so I don’t know what actual cultivar they typically ship under that name. It seems that they have both cultivars but confuse them in their online display and sometimes in shipping.


            More recently, the good plant nursery Edible Landscaping is adding to the confusion. Its O’Rourke page displays the picture of Improved Celeste fruit and leaves:


            Again, these are all good nurseries for figs, in my opinion, though their confusion on O’Rourke and Improved Celeste is considerable. If you want great fig trees at reasonable prices, you can scarcely do better than to buy from Almost Eden and Petals from the Past, also Edible Landscaping – just watch out for confusion with the Improved Celeste and O’Rourke cultivars.

            Tony WV 6b
            https://mountainfigs.net/

            Comment


            • AscPete
              AscPete commented
              Editing a comment
              To add to the confusion...
              Almost Eden's alleged "improved Celeste" is a regular Celeste, but no idea about their O'Rourke, they are always sold out.
              Petals ft Past's Tiger is O'Rourke and their O'Rourke is the IC Hybrid.
              Edible Landscaping's O'Rourke is an IC Hybrid, but an inferior cultivar with poor quality figs.

            • mountainfigs
              mountainfigs commented
              Editing a comment
              Good info, thanks.

          • #17
            Good thread revisiting much of what has been written previously. Improved Celeste from JF&E is very good, early, two-cropped and prolific here in 8B.

            You may only view thumbnails in this gallery. This gallery has 7 photos.
            jimmie aka JD | tallahassee.fl | zone.8b | davistating.eBay

            Comment


            • King Fig
              King Fig commented
              Editing a comment
              Ha.......I thought that I had straighten out this naming mess years ago!! .............lol

              Here are some facts folks:

              When Dr. Johnson at LSU released the O'Rourke fig cultivar (under pressure by a certain fig lover I might add), he was not even aware that there were several figs that had been tested by other fig lovers under the generic name of "Improved Celeste". It was Dr. O'Rourke himself who gave those sibling figs to other fig lovers for them to trial in their orchards for him. He did the same thing with the new Apples and Pears that he bred. Yes, O'Rourke bred apples and pears too!!

              Let me repeat that again......LSU did not know about a fig which I (and others) was studying for a few years that was named "Improved Celeste". When LSU released O'Rourke 2007, it looked nothing like my Improved Celeste. I personally talked to Dr. Johnson about that difference. He did not know anything about the fig that I now call "LSU Improved Celeste" on my fig blog. O'Rourke and LSU Improved Celeste are two entirely different sibling figs. Both are very good figs and I would not be without either one.

              For years I have been trying to make the distinction between those two fig cultivars. I can emphatically state that .......LSU Improved Celeste is NOT the same fig cultivar as the O"Rourke which was tested under the name "Improved Celeste. You can read a lot more about these two LSU bred figs on my fig Blog.

              Dan
              Semper Fi-cus

            • King Fig
              King Fig commented
              Editing a comment
              Hello JD.

            • JD
              JD commented
              Editing a comment
              Hey Dan!

          • #18
            Mega Celeste was first introduced to the fig community by Herman2 ( real name initials are VS). It is not an LSU bred fig. This fig originated from a Lowe's store in New Jersey. Vasile give it the name "Mega Celeste" because to him it look like a very large Celeste Fig.

            Dan
            Semper Fi-cus

            Comment


            • FMD
              FMD commented
              Editing a comment
              So, is Tiger an LSU bred fig then? Or....

            • King Fig
              King Fig commented
              Editing a comment
              Yes Tiger is an LSU fig. It was field tested as Giant Celeste. It is different than O'Rourke and LSU Improved Celeste.

            • hoosierbanana
              hoosierbanana commented
              Editing a comment
              "I got it as a regular Celeste from Lowes in 2003 and I renamed Megaceleste because the size of fruit." -Herman2

          • #19
            Dan, silly question, but I'd like your input on this since you are the LSU authority.

            Does this variety (Improved Celeste) deserve the prefix "LSU" since it is not really known or acknowledged by the university? Or, since it is apparently a result of Dr. O'Rourke's breeding program should the prefix apply to indicate its origin?
            https://www.figbid.com/Listing/Browse?Seller=Kelby
            SE PA
            Zone 6

            Comment


            • King Fig
              King Fig commented
              Editing a comment
              I always use the prefix when I refer to this particular hybrid so as to make a distinction between the O'Rourke hybrid. My guess is that LSU will officially release this fig in the future under another new name.

              Dan
              Semper Fi- Cus

            • Kelby
              Kelby commented
              Editing a comment
              Makes sense, thanks.

          • #20
            Is there a significant taste difference between IC and O'R?

            Comment


            • King Fig
              King Fig commented
              Editing a comment
              Yes they do taste different. The LSU Improved Celeste is bigger too. Their fruiting characteristics are different too. I would not be without either of them. For more information go to my fig Blog.

              Dan
              Semper Fi-Cus

          • #21
            improved Celeste hybrid
            aka IC-On (Improved Celeste O'Rourke not)
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            Zone / Region:
            zone 6, Hudson Valley, NY USA

            Cultural practice:
            container grown, 5-1-1-1 potting mix, Espoma Garden-tone and MG All purpose fertilizers

            Leaf descriptions:
            1 - 3 lobed shallow sinuses, some 5 lobed aka 3-lobed with thumbs, one of the thickest leaved varieties.

            Fig descriptions:
            small to medium sized with a brown ribbed exterior. Amber flesh, amber to pink pulp. Jammy, moderately sweet with light cane syrup flavor and light seed crunch (small seeds). The figs ripen with good flavor even in cooler weather.

            Growth habits:
            Moderate growth of thick branches that lignify quickly resulting in an up right growth habit. The tree is very healthy with no visible signs of mosaic disease.
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            Pete R - Hudson Valley, NY - zone 5b

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            • #22
              Well well well...look who's back! Dan! What's up Dan? Long time no hear!

              every year, this question about LSU figs come up. When I got my first LSU Improved Celeste, Dalton said it and O'Rourke were the same. Years later I learned they were not. Now, I do have the real O'Rourke and several Improved Celeste.
              Dennis
              Charlotte, NC /Zone 8a

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              • King Fig
                King Fig commented
                Editing a comment
                Hey Dennis.

                I have first hand info here....not hearsay. Dalton sold a fig called Improved Celeste.....not LSU Improved Celeste. Both he and James Robin changed the label on their inventory figs to O'Rourke whne LSU officially it. again let me repeat this important FACT.....I know the information first hand and know what I am talking about. Half the fig people in La. Got,pissed at me when I told them they couldn't do that because they were different figs. When they called LSU for clarification they gave them WRONG information.....adding even more confusion.....insisting that i was the one who didn't know what I was talking about. I was right all along because I had information that LSUs Johnson did not have. There is even more to this than I am willing to reveal at this time.

                Dan
                Semper Fi-cus

            • #23
              Just thought I should weigh in on the terminology used in this thread for clarity...

              Tacking the word hybrid onto named LSU varieties is not proper. It implies that the plant is an unnamed seedling of the specific named LSU variety. For instance, O'Rourke hybrid describes a seedling resulting from a cross of O'Rourke. O'Rourke can be described as a Celeste hybrid, or an improved (not capitalized because it is not a name) Celeste to reflect it's parentage.

              Fig trees with female mothers (sounds weird right?) are all guaranteed to be genetically heterozygous, which is synonymous with the term hybrid. Only attributing hybridization to varieties derived from controlled crosses ignores the natural reproduction method employed by figs, whether random or intentional a cross is a cross.
              .

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              • #24
                Brent,
                The Improved Celeste 1-3 lobed, aka IC-On, aka improved Celeste hybrid is actually an unnamed Celeste hybrid that's been in circulation without a name for more than 50 years. It would be great if it had a unique name, but that has not happened in almost 6 decades.
                Pete R - Hudson Valley, NY - zone 5b

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                • #25
                  Pete, I am saying that the term "improved Celeste hybrid" is incorrect. It could be described as an improved Celeste, or as a Celeste hybrid. This forum is the only place on the internet where the exact term appears...
                  .

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                  • Kelby
                    Kelby commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I feel with you Brent, you very clearly stated why a hybrid truly is.

                    Unfortunately, many terms in the gardening/horticulture world get twisted in general usage, for example heirloom fruit trees. They are not actually heirloom since they are cloned by grafting/cuttings and not seed propagated, but it has become part of the language to mean something different.
                    Last edited by Kelby; 04-03-2015, 01:57 PM.

                  • AscPete
                    AscPete commented
                    Editing a comment
                    The name "Improved Celeste hybrid" is to acknowledge the historical name of the cultivar "Improved Celeste". The "hybrid" is to distinguish it from all the "improved Celeste" that are selections from all the regular Celeste cultivars in circulation and for its heritage as a "bred" cultivar.

                  • hoosierbanana
                    hoosierbanana commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I think adding mustard will not help make a soup sandwich any less messy
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