Correct Kathleen's Black Fig Leaf Pattern Question

[RyanH]

I have been studying reputable sources for Kathleen's Black fig tree's leaf patterns and I seem to find some trees with one pattern and other trees with a different pattern. This would lead me to believe one is a true Kathleen's black and the other is not. Please look at what I am seeing below and let me know if I am missing something.

Here is my "Kathleen's Black" that I bought from a very reputable online dealer. I purchased it in May of 2015 and put it in ground this fall. It appears to only have 5 lobes and a rather wide leaf. These pictures were taken 2 days ago. But this seems to be consistent with what is found at Figs4Fun official description here:
http://figs4fun.com/Thumbnail_Kathleens_Black.html

See 017, 018, 020, 021, .png attached.

BUT, I have found people on ebay selling a Kathleen's black saying theirs is the true type with 7 lobes and a more palmetto leaf. Also, I visited with another reputable fig guy on this forum and his mature Kathleen's black appeared to have the 7 lobes and the more willowy palmetto leaf type.

See 032.png attached. (the last picture that is the smallest)


Any idea which one is the correct Kathleen's black? If one is not the Kathleen's any idea what mine could be? No fruit yet to help.

[quackmaster]

My KB looks more like you top pics and not the bottom one.

[Coop]

Here is my Kathleen.This was 2 years after I bought this from our favorite driveway farmer, this is one delicious fig!

[quackmaster]

Last season my KB (from vasile) looked like coop's and this is it this season.

[newnandawg]

My KB this afternoon from drivewayfarmer also.

[RyanH]

Your photos did not come through. Could you post again?

[drivewayfarmer]

My Kathleen's Black came directly from Gene Hosey of East Coast figs.

[hammerwood]

Mine has the seven palmetto style leaf pattern like shown in the pictures above. Of all of the trees in my collection (including the very expensive ones) this tree is one of my favorites for taste and consistency. I believe every fig enthusiast should have a Kathy Black.

[Altadena Mara]

I think my KB from Plant-creator looks more like Coop’s pictures from Driveway Farmer, not like the top pictures of RyanH but perhaps closer to the bottom ones? The KB on the left is the mother tree planted and the KB on the right is an air layer from the first tree. There seems to be a difference in the various leaves posted on this thread, for sure.

[RyanH]

One theory is that my tree is just young and the leaves will change as it matures. The mother tree that I got it from has not leafed out yet, (different state) but when it does I should be able to get a picture of it to compare to see if that will be the case or not.

It looks like everyone else's I have seen has the 7 lobes. Mine does not and has 5. But whats puzzling is the fig leaf shown on http://figs4fun.com/Thumbnail_Kathleens_Black.html has 5 lobes. I have another theory on this as well but I am still getting some information on it to see if it holds up or not.

[RyanH]

The plot thickens! (I am going to make a couple of posts to better organize the photos as this can be confusing.)

I found this thread on Figs4Fun:
http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox....-82314-7050984


The Summary of the thread is that newnandawg posts pictures of his "kathleen black" with leaves that looks like mine. Users question it saying it should have the 7 lobes and did not think it is Kathleen Black. This tree comes from Herman2. Herman2 posts on the very bottom saying this is NOT Kathleens black but Sal Corleone and he messed up what he sent out. This is not a knock on Herman. I am sure he is a very reputable seller and I would certainly buy form him. Mistakes happen and he seems to own up to them as he did in that thread.

So here is where it gets more interesting, after doing some asking to the person I bought my tree from, he confirmed that my trees ultimately comes from Herman. (My seller, bought it from someone, who bought it from Herman). Here is the leaf that Newandawg posted that he thought was KB but Herman confirmed was a mistake and actually Sal Corelone:

[RyanH]

Now here is a picture of my supposed KB leaf.

[RyanH]

Now here is a photo from another forum member's Kathleen Black's tree that came from HERMAN.

[RyanH]

So I think there are one of two possibilities here:

1. The KB leaf changes dramatically once its mature.

2. Hermans sent out more than 1 Sal Corleone as KB. Those people who got the Sal C from Herman propagated it as KB and sold it. This would also explain why Figs4Fun picked up the wrong leaf pattern as they studied a Sal C which they thought was a KB. But the KB 7 lobes seems to be right.

Anyone have more information that could shed light on this? I only want to make sure my tree is labeled correctly. But I am thinking theory number 2 is most likely. Thoughts??

[newnandawg]

RyanH, as stated above by drivewayfarmer my tree came from Kerry who got it from Gene Hosey. I also have the one from Herman which is a SC.

[RyanH]

I am a bit confused. Am I misunderstanding what was said in this post: http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox....-82314-7050984. Was not the pictures of the leaves posted there what you throught was a KB that Herman confirmed was a Sal C?

[RyanH]

Herman posted on 9/1/2014 which I understood to be a message to you:

The fig in this topic is not Kathleen Black,but Sal Corleone.
If I sent that fig to Mike as Kathleen Black,then i really blew this one up.
I already sent him an Email,to apologize and pay up for my mistake.
I also fill bad I did not see this topic till now as I was out of US for 2 month.

[quackmaster]

My tree came from herman and the leaves change from year to year, in the past the leaves had 7 very defined lobes and then this year there almost solid. It is definitely a KB and not a SC.

[RyanH]

Thanks. I guess I will have it wait for it to fruit to know for sure.

[bigmike]

Heres my KB. Its about four months old.

[RyanH]

I contacted Herman (Vasile) and he said he is confident that there was only the one slip up with the Sal sent out instead of the Kathleen. Also, he sent me these two pictures of HIS tree in 2 different years. One appears to only be 3 and 5 leaf lobes (like mine) and he other year all 7 lobe. So its looks like the KB can just change that drastically. Interesting that some people have the 7 leaf lobe very early and others do not. Wonder what causes that? Thanks everyone for your feedback. Interesting stuff.

[watagarasu]

wow,,,i want

[mgginva]

I'm moving this week but if you PM me in a couple weeks I can send you a cutting from the KB source tree, or at least one from one of my trees that came from the original KB that was/is in Gene Hosey's front yard in Wash., DC. I love this variety and Gene thought it was the best tasting of the dark figs. An absolutely must have in my opinion. Not an easy one to propagate, however.

[figgary]

Can someone post some fruit pics please?

[saifud6301]

This is mine..it said a True 7 Palmate Leaves..seller is retired_electronic_tech. I bought the plant via ebay from him on April 17th 2016

[WillsC]

Saifud, I'm pretty sure that is not KB. While the leaves do change and can vary yours is much much different.

[watagarasu]

leaf like brunswick

[cjmach1973]

All on the same K B tree

[Fygmalion]

Now there is a lady with multiple personality disorder.... :-)

[jmaler]

Here is what my source for KB has to say about its origin:

"Hi Jmaler; I think that I can help you with this. The Kathleen Black fig tree has a large seven palmate leaf and will grow to be very large depending on the size of the tree itself and I have the parent plant growing right here in my yard and the full history of it. In 1984 the elderly man that was then living in what is my home now got them from his military brother that lived on the Georgia / Florida line; this brother had brought them from England when he retired from service just before Mr. Elgin (The man that lived here) went to visit his brother and retried the trees."

[Blackfoot12]

Here is my Kathleen Black a couple of good pics as to what my leaf looks like. Some of the leaves are quite large.

[Rewton]

Jerry, if that is the history of the tree that you have then you have an altogether different fig than the one most of us know as Kathleen's Black. According to Gene Hosey, this fig was growing (approximately 10-15 years ago) in the yard of his friend Kathleen who lived in the Washington DC area. Kathleen obtained it as a dark fig from a nursery in Michigan - he thought it was Michigan Bulb. The name that nursery gave this fig was forgotten along the way so Gene named it "Kathleen's Black". Often I see the name shortened to "Kathleen Black". Gene sent KB to a number of fig people in the U.S. and sold it out of his nursery "East Coast Figs" for a while.

[Bluemalibu]

It turns out that I too was a hapless victim of Retired_Electronic_Tech. https://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox...pid=1293467717

I purchased five of his K/B frauds.

He's back on Ebay again selling fig trees, so the forum should be aware of this character.

I'd be interested in purchasing true trees or cuttings from forum members that might have them.

Blue