The Trick With Brebas

[mountainfigs]

Whatever it is, I don't know it. For me, producing plentiful breba figs has not been as easy as simply leaving long limbs to overwinter in garage on potted trees.

In my zone, the earliest brebas come in only a few weeks before the earliest main crop cultivars. So there may not be much to gain. However, a few weeks after a long winter can mean a lot, especially if those are productive weeks. I have productive main crop cultivars and no productive breba crop cultivars, though I thought I might this year.

So I'll try something this winter, but I will be merely guessing, and would appreciate if anyone could chime in with tried and true methods for producing ample breba crops in potted trees in a short growing season. Producing a breba crop seems tricky because if the buds get too far along in late summer or fall, then figs develop and most/all do not carry over the winter. However, if the buds do not get along far enough, then breba figs do not develop in spring. For this reason there might seem to be a short stretch on branches where breba figs can form, yet I have seen long stretches of branches (in photos) bearing breba figs.

My experiment this late summer may be to pinch branches that have born main crop figs with the hope of producing numerous short branches that might develop buds for bearing a breba crop next year. Simply letting the limbs go this year did not work. However, merely guessing here, and would rather employ tried and true techniques.

[drew51]

I'm in the same situation, although I'm so new I'm still looking at main crops and what works for me. Keep us updated.

[Rafaelissimmo]

Tony this is a very interesting topic, this nasty spring resulted in one single breba holding to maturity in my entire collection. I do believe the cold affected breba retention this year, and truthfully, we have no solution to this in the northeast, except maybe a greenhouse. I like your idea of pinching, but my thought is that pinching green wood may not produce branching on green wood. Am I off track? What do you think?

[mountainfigs]

Rafael, I'm not sure, though I think I remember green wood branching on green wood. Would it matter though? Shouldn't branching on lignified wood do the trick too, if the trick works at all? Plentiful breba production is a mystery to me.

[quackmaster]

I've never had luck with brebas, this year is probably the most I've ever had and that's still not much, one tree with almost a dozen and 2 or 3 trees with one or two and that's it.

[Pino]

Thanks Tony great topic!

Not sure I can add much to answer your question but I love figs as early as possible in this cold N.E.

Last year for some magical reason it seems my figs went crazy producing brebas.

Glad I did a fiorone log because this year I only have a few brebas.

I am scratching my head to find a reason. Given last winter was mild.
I wonder if even slightly below freezing temps are enough to kill the 1st crop bud?

Or a simple heading prune cut is enough to make the fig skip the 1st crop cycle that produces brebas?

[Darkman]

This year I had twenty to thirty figs on my LSU Gold. When they were the size of quarters they all disappeared. I am not sure they were Breba but they were very early. I noticed today on my unknown that may be a Mary Lane Seedless and was formerly known as TX-BA1 BUT IS DEFINATELY NOT I have about twenty figs that are definitely Brebas. Not sure why I posted this but there it is!

PS Quackmaster I'm bringing you TWO of this highly sought after Unknown fig!

WHY?

Cause you have the room to grow it and you are surrounded with enough knowledgeable people (yourself included) that maybe it can be identified.

[Darkman]

Update: The unknown still is holding the brebas. They are a little bigger than a quarter and are still quite firm.

[quackmaster]

I just came across this thread and comment, I'm sorry so late. I have a bad habit of commenting on a thread and not checking it unless I get a notice or something. I would be honored to try those. Thank you.

[Tonycm]

I've had little success with brebas. My trees either produce a couple or none at all. This year my Valle Negra has quite a few, guessing at least 3 dz and about 8 - 10 on Atreano. The mild winter may have played a part on that but then why didn't the other trees keep theirs. I quit worrying about producing breba and figure it as a bonus IF they stay on and ripen but on the other hand it would be great if it was somethingthat I could look forward to on a yearly basis.

[Harborseal]

I don't have all the good breba producing trees but the best one in my yard is the one Grasa's boss called an Adriatic. It out performs any 3 desert kings put together.

[mountainfigs]

Do you get good production per pot size year-in and year-out with Grasa's fig? Can you put a number on it? As for Desert King, I don't recall hearing of much success with Desert King apart from the west coast.

[Harborseal]

It's only 3 years old (4?) but the last 2 years have been striking. This year it only had 3 brebas until 2 weeks ago when 6 more appeared. That's my 1 plant record and I haven't pruned it for production yet. That happens this summer to all my breba bearers It's in a 7 gal trade pot. I'll count next time I'm out there and change this if it's wrong. Also consider that the lasr 2 years here have been some of the worst weather imaginable with very little productivity and growth of most plants, not just figs.

[mountainfigs]

We are all basically echoing each other. Very interesting, though unfortunate results, and throughout the entire eastern half of North America, including eastern Canada, US northeast, the upper midwest, the southeast and southcentral of Florida and Louisiana. No report (yet) of reliable breba productivity, which is very different from main crop information. A chasm of difference with brebas. The implications and opportunities are striking. So, a good handful of reliable productive main crop cultivars. But a single year-in, year-out breba cultivar, or reliable breba production technique?

[hstark]

I have an odd fig that I've been trying to ID, but doesn't fit any of the figs I've seen leaves/fig pix of yet. The leaves look like Kadota, but the fruit while colored correctly do not have the Kadota shape. This is the FIRST year I've actually paid any attention to it, so not sure if this is unusual or typical of this, but it broke dormancy on 3/15/16. On 5/1/16 it was covered with small figs errupting. Yesterday, 5/29/16 the biggest Breba looks like this.

It is flopping over so I think I should pick it soon. I figured since you were talking about brebas, that someone can give me few more clues what this can be. It's pretty prolific, but the fruit doesn't look like Kadota. The leaves look like Kadota and not like the other yellow/green figs I've seen pix of. This branch is the lowest on the tree, and got rust, which I think it caught from my nearby Black Mission. The others don't have rust (nor do they have huge ripe fruit on them either, they all have the medium green fruit like the rest of the branch).

[AscPete]

Hstark,
Have you compared it to LSU Gold?

[hstark]

Not LSU Gold... just looked pix of that up, and the leaves and fruit aren't right. This has a big flat bottom, not rounded shape. Desert King isn't right either... that has a more rounded bottom too. Also, mine only has a red cross in the fruit when cut open, rest of the pulp is amber and white. Of course, the pix I'm finding online may not be accurate either, so someone with a similar plant would help best.

[mountainfigs]

Went back and looked at the pulp. Since it has at least as much amber pulp as red, it's not DK, which as you point out is also too round. Given all the amber, probably a honey fig, and does look like LSU Gold, as Pete points out, a fig which typically does have a big flat bottom: http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox....ount=8&forum=0
Compare to your photos:

https://www.ourfigs.com/forum/figs-home/86849-help-with-iding-a-fig-please?p=89920#post89920

[Rafaelissimmo]

I still think an Italian cultivar known for breba, like Filacciano Bianco or Petrelli should produce a decent crop, even in the Northeast.

[mountainfigs]

I'm trying those, recently. A two foot tall Petrelli (Trojano) has 5 or 6 breba currently that look well. Ditto a small Kadota tree, and a tall Malta Purple Red (Palermo Red?). Also Negronne, and Petite Negri. Not more than about 6 brebas on each tree however. Last year, Aldo's Palermo Red had 10-12 brebas that most ripened well but this year it has zero.

[hstark]

I posted it cut open on my original ID thread... I have more pix of it, let me know there so I can keep the photos all together on one thread. Thanks.

[ross]

Did anyone find anything new pertaining to consistent brebas? I think this is a valuable thread that should be given more thought.

[hstark]

I think my fig consistently brebas... before I knew what a breba was (about a month ago finding this forum), I just thought my fig tree never stopped making figs from March til November or Dec when it rained a lot (because before last fall, I never watered or fertilized it once in 10 years). It always has a few figs on it all year round except for about 4 months in the winter when it's dormant, even when completely ignored. The birds ate most of my figs when they ripened, but it would just grow more figs. I was surprised to learn that figs have different 'crops'.

I'm starting to wonder if stress causes figs to form... stress makes many types of orchids put out the best blooms. Has that been anyone's experience?

[hstark]

I wonder if mine might be a Mt Etna type?

[mountainfigs]

I didn't mean to imply Mt Etna of yours. Mt Etna figs are dark on the outside, dark red on the inside, and relatively small.

[hstark]

Oh. Actually, I should have known that, thanks.

[mountainfigs]

Moshe Flaishman's entire "Culture of Edible Figs" patent application is worth reading; in particular, regarding brebas:

Tests have demonstrated that winter pruning not only helps shape the tree, but can also stimulate the development of breba fruits. Particularly where vertical shoots show “blank” regions—that is, lengths of a vertical shoot where brebas should have developed, but failed to appear—dormant pruning to remove the top several nodes above the blank region causes brebas to develop in the blank region. During the growing season pruning can control the fruit production. It can enhance early maturation of the summer crop before mid to late summer when the market is often loaded with figs and the fig prices are low. In addition, this pruning can enhance the fall crop by removing the summer crop figs before they develop and by stimulating vigorous new growth that will bear the second crop of fruit. Such normal pruning is supplemented with nipping or pinching of the apical bud during the growth season. After winter pruning has forced the growth of new shoots, the apical buds of those new shoots are crushed or nipped when the shoot has attained a length of about 5-10 nodes.

Nipping or pinching differs from normal pruning as the operation involves the immature tissue of the shoot before significant secondary growth has commenced. As mentioned above, the shoots that were newly induced by pruning, rapidly set fruit buds. The nipping process diverts the plant's energy (i.e., sugars) and hormones into those fruit buds greatly accelerating their development and unexpectedly improving the quality of the resulting fruit. By the use of nipping, the midsummer lull between the breba figs (fruit buds from the previous growth season) and the “second crop” figs (fruit buds from the current growth season) is reduced or eliminated, allowing production of high quality fruit at a time when fig trees undergoing cultivation by ordinary methods would have none.

Also, the breba findings of Ed Stover's "Screening Diverse Fig Cultivars for Commercial Potential" seem illuminating, as far as they go.

1) We've heard plenty about Desert King but it has seemed to work better in the Pacific Northwest than elsewhere, including in my yard, though I look to ripen a few this year.

2) We've heard that Brown Turkey is supposed to be a decent breba producer if perhaps questionable of taste but where is there a plethora of photoed evidence of good breba production? (I've only recently begun to acquire BT for breba trial.)

3) In the chart, White Texas Everbearing ranks highly and this may be Kadota, or variant, which also ranks decently, and this year in my yard, Kadota and its type (Trojano) have 4 and 5 nice looking brebas on very small and scarcely branched trees.

4) In the chart, VDB also ranks. Sure it scored brebas on only 25 percent of its branches but the variety (synonyms/variants) tends to be if anything excessively branchy in my experience. This is my most consistently producing breba cultivar with 8 or 9 brebas on some small trees.

5) Palermo Red, not studied by Stover apparently, though looks something like Dauphine, can produce a nice handful of brebas in my yard, about as many as the VDB variety, but not as consistently year in and year out (maybe because it branches less). A sharp looking, solid flavor breba.

6) Mission, though ranked by Stover with Brown Turkey, Violette de Bordeaux, and Kadota has not produced in my yard.

7) Grantham's Royal I had high hopes for this year again but again produced a mere one or two brebas. As usual is putting on plenty of main crop figs that need the wasp unfortunately to ripen.

8) Despite my mistreating the trees two years in a row, the Marseilles variants/synonyms have produced brebas probably most reliably.

Tentative Conclusions:

A) Left to their own devices in my yard, the VDB and Marseilles variants/synonyms have fruited the most and reliably, though minimally both.

B) By applying Flaishman's techniques next year - in particular "remov[ing] the top several nodes above the blank region" - potentially I'll see significant improvements with the VDBs, Marseilles, Kadotas, Palermo Reds, Brown Turkeys, King, Grantham's Royal, Brooklyn White, Conadria, and others. These cultivars, along with a few others, have a least given hints of their breba potential in my yard. Now maybe they can be coaxed into a much more full production.

Meanwhile I'll continue search for a more magical breba cultivar. I didn't realize that breba production would be this challenging.

[mountainfigs]

Note palmfan's comments at Gardenweb 8 years ago about breaking off terminal buds early in spring to produce brebas:

"Here in 7b, Cape May County, NJ, my trees leaf out in early to mid April, and usually get frosted in November, or even December! As for brebas, I did much better with my unprotected trees on Staten Island, New York. My White Marseilles had a good breba crop, and a less tasty main crop. One year I had three crops on it, as well as Brown Turkey and hardy Chicago. I just figured out that my unprotected White Marseilles fruited better with its brebas probably because I had a lot of terminal bud injury, thus no terminal bud growth to inhibit breba retention. Here I get just about 100% breba drop on the same cultivar brought from New York! Next spring I will break off most of the terminal buds on it to see if my observations are correct. Many places where I did that this year on some other varieties, I got brebas, including my Celeste!" May 18, 2008

[mountainfigs]

A three year study by Gaaliche and others concludes, emphasis added:

"Reproductive buds and fruits number were closely dependent on shoot length. Significant positive correlations were found between Breba crop figs number of current season and shoot length of previous season (0.83≤ r ≤0.98) and between Main crop figs number of current year and shoot length of current season (0.83≤ r ≤0.95). The Main crop amount exerted a strong influence on the current shoot growth as well as on fruiting in the following year: a heavy Main crop load of current season reduces vegetative growth and crop load of Breba for the next year. Similarly, high Breba crop load negatively affected the Main crop load for the current year. The results support the idea of the close interaction between vegetative and reproductive growth in each fig generation and growth flush."

Part of this has long been advised in the fig forums, that a breba crop at least can interfere with, delay, obstruct your main crop. But I don't recall mention in the forums that a heavy main crop can inhibit your breba crop for the following year. This is a big problem, say, for my Grantham's Royal tree, which I have only for the breba crop (because the main crop cannot ripen without wasp). Unfortunately it is in the pattern of doing exactly the wrong thing: producing a heavy (unripe) main crop each year and perhaps consequently an all but non-existent breba crop each year. Maybe removing the several top nodes per limb during winter can overcome this dynamic? Otherwise, how to prevent a heavy main crop from setting? Pick off each new fruit throughout the season? But then aren't the would-be breba crop buds "used up" regardless?

Paul's Grantham's Royal is really working well; although, as with the very productive Desert King trees it grows in the Pacific Northwest:


Do the cooler, less solar intense days in the Pacific Northwest inhibit main crop production on these cultivars, allowing for tremendous breba crop production? If so, how might that effect be gained in sunnier, less northern climes? By moving potted trees into shaded areas after - or even partly as - the breba crop comes in?

[don_sanders]

Not sure if this is the right thread but do brebas sometimes develop later in the season along with the main crop? Most of the brebas that I saw started when the trees started leafing out a couple of months ago. One tree is just now starting to develop the brebas even after some main crop have started and appear to be behind the main crop. Unless they ripen quicker for some reason, I'll be picking them after some of the main.

The reason I ask here is because I applied a BAP/lanolin paste to nodes on that tree to induce branching low on the trunk. I wonder if the BAP had a hand in inducing the brebas if this is abnormal.

This is only the second summer for the tree and I only have a handful of second summer trees so I don't know if it is normal.

[mountainfigs]

Sounds like you may have belatedly artificially induced some brebas.

[Altadena Mara]

My mature Marseilles put out a third crop that ripened in January or February after the main crop here in SoCal. This was followed by a good breba crop ripe now. Some fig trees refuse to stop making figs. As the climate changes to become warmer, we might see a lot more of this.

[mountainfigs]

Amazing how much it's possible to forget in a year. A lot of good information and reinforcing information from a thread last year on brebas:

https://www.ourfigs.com/forum/figs-home/16883-brebas-2015

[Bluemalibu]

Tried-'n-true method, Tony... buy the spread next to me here in Northern California.

[mountainfigs]

I hope that doesn't come to seem as practical as any other method ultimately!

[eboone]

How many acres and is it really available?

[hstark]

Breba forms on the last year's growth right? What happens if you prune right after the breba crop before the main forms? Would that encourage green shoots and branching before winter?

[mountainfigs]

It would, though that would leave plenty of summer for main crop to form on the new branches. The idea is similar to my thought in the original post, the difference being that I've been considering pinching the branches to try to create a lot of short new limbs on which main crop figlets would not have the time, the heat, or the daylight to form, by pinching later in the season.

[Sas]

I have over 70 trees in pots and despite the fact that winter in TX lasts for about five minutes, I still have to find a decent breba on any of my three or four year old trees. I have varieties that will produce both brebas and main crop at the same time perhaps, but if I try to look for an early ripening Breba, I'd have to look very hard. As an example this year I had a couple of brebas on my Marseille, Nordland and Madeleine des deux Saisons, Violetta Bayernfeige and Chicago Hardy. I only got to taste the Marseille. The others were nailed by birds before they ripened. Quantity wise the breba count is not significant when compared with main crop, nor tasty enough for me to really worry about it.
My feeling at this point is that in order to really have a decent Breba crop, I will need two things. An established large tree in ground and a warm weather such as CA. Anything less than that and I'm pushing the envelope.

[ross]

What was your lowest temp hitting your trees this winter, Sas?

[Sas]

Hi Ross,

I've seen 18 degrees at night but it does not last. The next day it's back in the high thirties. If we have a freeze, it's a big deal and usually does not last more than a couple of days and by noon it's gone. It is still enough to damage some branches or baby trees. I keep all my pots outside unprotected.
Even the ones in the ground are no longer protected after two years.

[mountainfigs]

Growing figs in northern Appalachia means pushing the envelope no matter what, I think. I'm grateful that at least a handful of the thousands of fig cultivars can make it a fruitful venture here. (Improved Celeste seems like it has got something other than fig in it, something earlier, and something about Mt Etna, it seems like it has got comfrey in its DNA, the way it throws out flavorful figs like myriad colorful comfrey blossoms. And Ronde de Bordeaux... By the way I'm bothered by the labtech name Improved Celeste. I prefer to call it Iceleste. LSU should hurry up and name it finally and release if formally.) Here in zone 6, it may turn out that considerably more than a handful of cultivars can produce a bounty of main crop. I think that will be the case depending on what gets prioritized, though certain cultivars will remain easier to work with than others. Still, I'd hate to not fully utilize more of the growing season, the early months. I wonder if the ultimate trick might be to find a corner of the yard, a wall of the house, the base or side of a large hardwood or evergreen tree, a porch, garage, or other shaded spot (awning?) to create conditions, if not wholly like the Pacific Northwest, at least sufficient to encourage bud and not main crop formation on select cultivars, so that the following year, boom, early breba production for real. No sense wasting a good main crop cultivar in this endeavor, so will look to the San Pedros, Grantham's Royal in particular, I imagine.

If successful, the question shifts from, Can a large breba crop come in? to How early can it come in? In other words, what are the earliest San Pedros?

Conadria (not a San Pedro) has been perhaps my earliest (though very minimal) breba crop here, with a main crop of not much account, so would not be serious main crop sacrifice to try a cultivar like that as well. And for some late main crop figs that may have an especially early breba crop, it could be worth sacrificing any chance at a main crop totally - White Triana comes to mind. I doubt that the quality of these breba crops would approach that of Grantham's Royal but they might come in a good bit earlier. Palermo Red could be well worth a breba induction trial too. The more I think about it the more I'll probably want to try a Brooklyn White too, even though it has a very worthwhile main crop. That said, the brebas on Brooklyn White have not been especially early, first ripening only about 10 days before first main crops of other cultivars. Though who knows how things might change with special protections to greatly amplify breba crop production.

[Sas]

Here's an example of a Breba. This a Sicilian St. Anthony. It produces one crop only. Brebas mixed with main crop.
The fruit on new growth is of similar size and characteristics as the fruit on older wood. This is one of the earliest ripening varieties I know of. By the time this one is done other varieties haven even started to ripen.
Getting an early ripening variety for pot purposes in your cold area would probably work better than trying to get brebas.

[mountainfigs]

Yes, the thing is, my Marseilles performs like your St Anthony. Edible Landscaping notes Marseilles / St Anthony is its earliest ripening fig (apart from King, which it mistakenly calls Latarulla) and that it finishes ripening before its Mt Etna begins. I'm four hours northwest of Edible Landscaping but Marseilles is similar here too, to your St Anthony and to EL's Marseilles / St Anthony. Last year here Marseilles ripened main crop as early as any other cultivar, and finished early. It ripened exactly as early as Herman2's St Anthony has been reported to ripen. My Marseilles first ripened on August 3rd, the same day as Improved Celeste, a single day before Ronde de Bordeaux. So I've got figs from the start of August on with main crop. The thing is, my earliest breba ripen a full month earlier in July ... but sparsely. Last year:

probable Conadria: July 4
several White Triana: July 8
probable Kadota: July 8
several Vista (VDB): July 10
several O'Rourke: July 13
Negronne (VDB): July 16

first main crop figs: August 3rd-4th (Marseilles, Improved Celeste, and Ronde de Bordeaux)

So, I want to fill all of July with figs too. Apparently breba would be the way. Seems worthwhile to experiment and try.

My St Anthony is young so don't have a record of it but Herman2 (Vasile) reports that his St Anthony ripens with Improved Celeste and Ronde de Bordeaux (70 days) and that was my independent experience as well with my Marseilles last year, which is often considered to be St Anthony's twin. That's not to say that your Marseilles is not different. It's not the first different Marseilles that I've heard about or seen in circulation. Even Thomas Jefferson hundreds of years ago took pains to distinguish between figs called Marseilles and the true Marseilles. I don't care which one is true or not, really, just which one is early. And it looks like I've got breba production a month earlier than the earliest main crop cultivars, Marseilles or not, if only I can maximize it.

[AscPete]

There may not be any new techniques to increasing breba production...

The tried and true methods, pruning and culture are completely dependent on location / growing conditions and temperatures.

Partially developed main crop figs that "overwinter" grow as brebas and have to exist before dormancy.
In the Pacific north west the short cool growing season allows for ripening of brebas and only the early stage development of main crop figs.
In Warmer Zones (including California) most if not all the main crop figs develop and ripen by dormancy reducing any potential breba crops.
In colder zones most main crop figs develop fully and don't "overwinter" on the trees.

For potted fig culture pruning has been the method used to increase breba production, by removing the apical branch tips in winter. Pruning of in-ground trees has also been used to establish partially developed main crop figs that will "overwinter" and become the spring brebas.

The "Ripening rules of thumb",
(30-60-90 days and Daily Average temps, https://www.ourfigs.com/forum/figs-h...-ripening-figs )
Can be used as a guide for pruning based on the growth characteristics of the tree. Different varieties require more or less time to grow and or develop the embryonic figs, they have to be observed and noted in the spring growing season. Pruning the tree approximately 2 months before dormancy while providing sufficient nutrients and water can create new vegetative growth and partially developed "main crop" figs that will become brebas if they are kept at or above freezing temperatures in storage. Maintaining the temperatures also insures that the less lignified (green) growth will survive dormancy. In spring maintaining continuous growth through good culture and irrigation will also ensure that the breba crop enlarge and ripen properly.

Although I'm able to produce breba figs in my zone, by pruning and increased temperatures in winter storage I've opted for earlier main crop production instead of relying on brebas.

[mountainfigs]

While breba crops will always be decidedly supplemental to main crops, I think my breba crop production can be significantly and possibly greatly or vastly improved. Pruning, micro-locating, possible juvenile leaf removing, etc, there are a small handful of adjustments I'll try through to next spring and summer to see what happens next year with a few cultivars.

[jmaler]

Last season my large in ground tree aborted all it many brebas as it always does. By late spring I realized there was only going to be a handful of main crop figs. I tip pruned nearly every branch that had new growth in hopes of increasing the main crop, but only produced two to three new branches every place I tipped.

On Valentines Day of this year I pruned about 50% of the tree height. In early spring there were hundreds of brebas only to be aborted as usual. Later on a good amount of second crop of brebas formed along with a good main crop.

At this time the brebas are good size and a bit larger than the main crop but still not in the ripening stage.

This is the first year I can remember having brebas that will possibly ripen.

[AscPete]

Its been my observation that only a few things contribute to figs dropping, other than an obvious nutrient deficiency cold... (drop in temperature down to 40's while breba figs are growing) and water... (lack of soil moisture and or sporadic irrigation).

Congrats on the brebas...

[Rickyv101]

I think that it is important to pick the right variety, I have a few years old unknown fig tree, It has about 50+ brebas now and about 300+ of main crops, However, last year it aborted most of main crops, it probably drop them again this year, I think that it might be nutrient deficiency due to cold weather or it needs fig wasp, What do I gonne do with this fig tree?
I am hoping to find the right variety to replace it.